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protected class...what should I do

Started by revert79, April 08, 2020, 05:00:47 PM

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mahagonny

Quote from: polly_mer on April 09, 2020, 05:30:05 AM
If I remember your history correctly, revert79, then I would be very, very worried about my job in your situation.  As mamselle notes, you are a new hire in a non-faculty position that relies heavily on physical presence of others on campus.  Your budget was small enough you worried about attending one conference that was directly related to your current job and was of reasonable cost as conferences go.

All of that screams "job ready to be furloughed or cut and then refilled at some future time if the institution is still open and still wants that job after extensive review".  Being in a protected class or even tenured means nothing if the budget is tight enough that the institution is cutting many jobs and even whole departments.  No one will be worried at all about mere accusations of discrimination when it's dozens of jobs on the chopping block instead of one or two people who might be in specific categories.  Were I the decision maker, I wouldn't even be worried about lawsuits when the evidence of cutting across the board is so large.

In your shoes, I'd be looking for what else is available as jobs in the area and brushing up on what the current unemployment process is.  The accusations of trolls or even less-than-supportive discussions here is the least of your problems at this point.  Go start looking for jobs and not adjunct jobs because those, too, will be cut for the fall in many places.

Revert already knows she is in danger of losing her job. It was in the first or second sentence in the OP.

Come back and post something when you have something that isn't obvious.

writingprof

OP, are you white?  I strongly suspect so, but please pardon me if I'm mistaken.  The reason I suspected you of trollery is that a white person converting to Islam in order to get the diversity points and victim status is the reductio ad absurdum of identity politics.  In other words, your post reads like something I would have written here to annoy the Elizabeth Warren crowd.

revert79

Quote from: writingprof on April 09, 2020, 09:03:58 AM
OP, are you white?  I strongly suspect so, but please pardon me if I'm mistaken.  The reason I suspected you of trollery is that a white person converting to Islam in order to get the diversity points and victim status is the reductio ad absurdum of identity politics.  In other words, your post reads like something I would have written here to annoy the Elizabeth Warren crowd.

ha ha, okay.  I wasn't going to write back any more, but I just checked the thread and saw this.  I know these are the kind of comments you and others make here, but this is really extreme and offensive.  Yes, I am a white person.  No, I didn't convert to Islam to get "the diversity points and victim status".  I have a feeling nobody has ever done that.  In fact it would most likely be impossible.  Following Islam is a challenging practice and, for converts, it is only undertaken if there is real desire for spiritual development.  Just the degree of memorization of Arabic scripture is enough to keep a mercenary character from coming anywhere near, not to mention the meditation, fasting, zakat, etc.  And like I said, I have been very private about this in my life, and I began this practice quite a while ago.  It has nothing to do with my job.  Hardly anybody knows about my practice.  My question was whether I should be more open about it.  But I don't get the feeling you really care about these facts.

It seems like you find it fun to blow off steam by making these kinds of comments, to bring a little pain to the lives of strangers.  That's okay.  Maybe it is helpful to you in your life, maybe you're feeling bad about something, and this makes you feel a little better.  For me, it is not only really annoying, but also depressing, since you and a few others pretty much ruin the potential utility of this forum for lots of people.  But in another way, it's probably the most harmless way for you to act out violence against other people.  Maybe the way you behave on this forum spares the real people in your daily life some pain.  Baraka allahu fik and I hope you can find some peace in this world. بارك الله فيك

mahagonny

Being a Catholic is really demanding too. You can't eat meat on Fridays, no pre-marital sex, no contraceptives, all that confessing and attending Mass regularly. And then those commandments, loving your enemies. Tall orders. But somehow, a lot of people have done it.

revert79

Quote from: mahagonny on April 09, 2020, 11:25:38 AM
Being a Catholic is really demanding too. You can't eat meat on Fridays, no pre-marital sex, no contraceptives, all that confessing and attending Mass regularly. And then those commandments, loving your enemies. Tall orders. But somehow, a lot of people have done it.

Sure, that is all sensible enough.  But they probably didn't do it to trick anybody, or to try to become a token Catholic for some non-spiritual reason.  People convert to all kinds of religions, even ones that are very strict and difficult to adhere to.  We agree.

marshwiggle

Quote from: revert79 on April 09, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 09, 2020, 11:25:38 AM
Being a Catholic is really demanding too. You can't eat meat on Fridays, no pre-marital sex, no contraceptives, all that confessing and attending Mass regularly. And then those commandments, loving your enemies. Tall orders. But somehow, a lot of people have done it.

Sure, that is all sensible enough.  But they probably didn't do it to trick anybody, or to try to become a token Catholic for some non-spiritual reason.  People convert to all kinds of religions, even ones that are very strict and difficult to adhere to.  We agree.

I think writingprof's point (but I may be wrong) is that the point of "protected classes" is to keep people from being discriminated against for being a member of one of those classes. If people wouldn't guess that you are a member of that class, then they  wouldn't be discriminating on that basis either.
It takes so little to be above average.

polly_mer

Quote from: mahagonny on April 09, 2020, 08:56:05 AM
Come back and post something when you have something that isn't obvious.

Adjuncts should be looking for non-academic jobs now because fall is looking bad and many of those adjunct jobs will never be coming back.

Anyone employed at any already struggling college should be looking for a new job before the closure is officially announced.

Still probably too obvious, but experience indicates people in precarious positions tend not to believe until the announcements are made and the last day is officially set.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

revert79

Quote from: marshwiggle on April 09, 2020, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: revert79 on April 09, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 09, 2020, 11:25:38 AM
Being a Catholic is really demanding too. You can't eat meat on Fridays, no pre-marital sex, no contraceptives, all that confessing and attending Mass regularly. And then those commandments, loving your enemies. Tall orders. But somehow, a lot of people have done it.

Sure, that is all sensible enough.  But they probably didn't do it to trick anybody, or to try to become a token Catholic for some non-spiritual reason.  People convert to all kinds of religions, even ones that are very strict and difficult to adhere to.  We agree.

I think writingprof's point (but I may be wrong) is that the point of "protected classes" is to keep people from being discriminated against for being a member of one of those classes. If people wouldn't guess that you are a member of that class, then they  wouldn't be discriminating on that basis either.

yes, that's right.  My original question was, whether there might be some value in being more open about my religion at work.  Like, if it was a known fact about me, would that fact give those in charge of personnel cuts a moment's pause before crossing me off the list.  But, in the end I agree with Mamselle and Polly that this kind of thing is totally irrelevant to big decisions during an economic disaster. 

The point that Writing-Prof makes that is untrue, ungenerous, and intentionally distorted is the idea that I, or anybody, would decide to become a Muslim (or some other religion) solely due to a calculation that it would give them special minority status.  Nope.  I think there are about 30,000 converts to Islam in the US every year, and it is hard to imagine that this would be the reasoning for anybody.  You would have to be a total weirdo to quit drinking, pray to Allah 5x per day, fast during daylight for 1 month of the year, give away part of your income, and possibly do the Hajj in the hopes of someday impressing a hypothetical search committee with your special status.  If they even knew, which how would they?  So yeah. 

mahagonny

#23
My point was some Catholics, and I would assume some Muslims, are devout and strict, and others, way less so. But they still get to self-identify that way.
I don't see myself calling out anyone, in real life, for changing religions or suddenly getting religious for an ulterior motive. But it could cross my mind.

Quote from: polly_mer on April 09, 2020, 11:37:00 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 09, 2020, 08:56:05 AM
Come back and post something when you have something that isn't obvious.

Adjuncts should be looking for non-academic jobs now because fall is looking bad and many of those adjunct jobs will never be coming back.

Anyone employed at any already struggling college should be looking for a new job before the closure is officially announced.

Still probably too obvious, but experience indicates people in precarious positions tend not to believe until the announcements are made and the last day is officially set.

Suit yourself Polly. You often sound as though you think you arrived just in time to save the day. I think I'll just find it amusing from now on.

ciao_yall

Quote from: mahagonny on April 09, 2020, 12:49:42 PM
My point was some Catholics, and I would assume some Muslims, are devout and strict, and others, way less so. But they still get to self-identify that way.
I don't see myself calling out anyone, in real life, for changing religions or suddenly getting religious for an ulterior motive. But it could cross my mind.

Really? I wouldn't imagine you to be the type to make all sorts of crazy assumptions about people's thoughts and motivations, then rant all over discussion fora insisting that everyone else's mind is, in fact, exactly what you describe. [/endsnark]

writingprof

Quote from: revert79 on April 09, 2020, 11:47:48 AM
The point that Writing-Prof makes that is untrue, ungenerous, and intentionally distorted is the idea that I, or anybody, would decide to become a Muslim (or some other religion) solely due to a calculation that it would give them special minority status. 

I don't believe I said "solely."  But you can't pretend you weren't aware that becoming a Muslim might bring political benefits.  The possibility of cashing in on those benefits is the entire premise of this thread.

jimbogumbo

I can't see the opening of the OP. However, I did go back and look at your first post. I'm basing the following on what I think is your area of expertise, and what I see happening with budgets.

Like polly, I too think this Fall will be dire at the majority of US campuses. The four year regionals (like mine), and CCs are likely to see severe cuts as state revenue is in deep crap, and unlikely to be propped up by the Federal government by Fall. Any adjuncts not in areas such as Accounting are in danger of not having a job.

I have to say that when I read pieces of what mahogany, polly, Wahoo and marshwiggle write I agree with them all. They tend to repeat things over (okay, and over, and over) but they all speak alot of truth, even when it appears they are mortal enemies.

We are all (TT, NTT, adjuncts) in further peril this Fall if the semester starts online. The temptation for administrators will be to create MOOC-like courses with few instructors required.

My best wishes to you.



att_mtt

Here something from my perspective: There are thoughts at my current institution to continue in the fall with online classes only as well as cutting 25% (!) of all spending, meaning closing departments etc.
I would go with the advice on getting finance ready for a while without income and be ready to apply for jobs (and I know that's kind of funny to say as academic hiring season is just over...) and not only academic but also alt-ac jobs that would be a adequate fit.
It's quite unsettling thoughts but that's what I think is under our control at the moment...

polly_mer

Apply widely for jobs now and be looking for a new career, not just a job for now until things get better in your corner of academia.

I'm repetitive in large part because it's clear that we have new audience members for whom the message is new, despite decades of that message being widespread, obvious, and common knowlege in some discourse communities.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

risenanew

Fellow Muslim woman (of the born-into-it brand) speaking here.

What you can do is try to find whether your particular college has some sort of diversity initiative in place that may make you less likely to lose your job than your fellow colleagues if you are in a protected class. For instance, I'm at a public community college with a very strong faculty union set within an enormous university system in a highly liberal state. We actually have it written in our retrenchment policy that if staff and/or instructors have to be fired due to financial difficulties experienced by the institution, our college (and all of its sister colleges) must actually analyze what the firings will do to its level of diversity (i.e, will firings decrease the % of staff and/or instructors who fall in protected classes: female, ethnic minority, disabled, etc.)

So theoretically, I (as a Muslim minority woman) have a slightly higher chance of holding onto my full-time tenure track position than, say, a white male professor in my same position who could also lose his job due to budget cuts. And even then, that's really not enough to save me if we lose so much funding that we both have to go. (Although if it's any consolation, the department has to get rid of its adjuncts and lecturers before it gets to me).

So do you have any kind similar document within your college outlining who gets fired in what order? If not, you may not even have the (very, very flimsy) protection I have.