College this fall--parents' perspective

[pgher]

I have two kids. Kid 1 attends an Ivy that shut down in mid-March. Clearly, they aren't getting the full Ivy experience, but I'm OK with that in an emergency.

Kid 2 is a high school senior planning to go away this fall to a relatively expensive public school in a different state.

Suppose we are still on some form of lockdown (maybe softer, maybe not) this fall. What would you do? Should Kid 1 continue taking distance courses from the Ivy, from somewhere else, or take a semester off? (They don't really accept transfer courses.) Should Kid 2 matriculate or stay home? How should we start planning?

[Caracal]

I have two kids. Kid 1 attends an Ivy that shut down in mid-March. Clearly, they aren't getting the full Ivy experience, but I'm OK with that in an emergency.

Kid 2 is a high school senior planning to go away this fall to a relatively expensive public school in a different state.

Suppose we are still on some form of lockdown (maybe softer, maybe not) this fall. What would you do? Should Kid 1 continue taking distance courses from the Ivy, from somewhere else, or take a semester off? (They don't really accept transfer courses.) Should Kid 2 matriculate or stay home? How should we start planning?

I would tend to say that if the schools reopen, they should go, assuming they want to. I'm sure other people come at this from a different perspective, but I think I'm mostly going to have to follow the guidance coming from state and private institutions. I don't feel well equipped from a mental health perspective to try to decide how to balance risks like this.

Obviously this doesn't apply if your kids have a medical condition that puts them at elevated risk. Generally, college aged kids have a very low risk of getting really sick from this, so it is mostly not about their health I suppose the other exception would be if the decision to reopen seems completely unjustified and reckless.

[marshwiggle]

I have two kids. Kid 1 attends an Ivy that shut down in mid-March. Clearly, they aren't getting the full Ivy experience, but I'm OK with that in an emergency.

Kid 2 is a high school senior planning to go away this fall to a relatively expensive public school in a different state.

Suppose we are still on some form of lockdown (maybe softer, maybe not) this fall. What would you do? Should Kid 1 continue taking distance courses from the Ivy, from somewhere else, or take a semester off? (They don't really accept transfer courses.) Should Kid 2 matriculate or stay home? How should we start planning?

If the kids are academically solid, so doing things remotely isn't likely to be a problem, I'd say try to have them proceed because otherwise the time is pretty much wasted waiting. If the change is likely to throw them off, then delaying may be worthwhile.

[clean]

I think that I understand what the OP is saying about not getting the whole experience.

I think that the Mark Twain quote is, "I never let schoolin interfere with my education"  In the case of the Ivy, it is not the 'schoolin' that is lacking, but the 'education' that goes with it.

I think that I would bite the bullet and delay a decision until more information is available. I would hope that the fall is better and even if it is not, Spring probably will be, and if is probably better to keep moving forward with the expectation that it will be better soon enough.

There may still be some opportunities to socialize with others at these places, so when things to return closer to normal, they will still have some relations to pick up.

[marshwiggle]

I think that I understand what the OP is saying about not getting the whole experience.

I think that the Mark Twain quote is, "I never let schoolin interfere with my education"  In the case of the Ivy, it is not the 'schoolin' that is lacking, but the 'education' that goes with it.

I think that I would bite the bullet and delay a decision until more information is available. I would hope that the fall is better and even if it is not, Spring probably will be, and if is probably better to keep moving forward with the expectation that it will be better soon enough.

There may still be some opportunities to socialize with others at these places, so when things to return closer to normal, they will still have some relations to pick up.

Just the one caveat here; if a lot of people defer starting until things get better, things could be a bit crowded when that happens.

[clean]

I think that I would bite the bullet and delay a decision until more information is available. I would hope that the fall is better and even if it is not, Spring probably will be, and if is probably better to keep moving forward with the expectation that it will be better soon enough.

In case my message was confusing, I was trying to say 'Defer making a decision' about the fall... not delay going in the Fall.  It is only April, and there is a lot more time for more/better information to come in before you need to finally decide what the best decision would be. 

[bibliothecula]

I'd ask them both to switch to a local CC or other school with reliable, established online programs. They can transfer to another school after lockdown, and even if not all of the credits transfer, they'll have been learning. It's pretty awful that the Ivy doesn't accept any transfer credits.

[spork]

The Ivy doesn't take transfer credits because it doesn't have to.

I like the idea of well-designed online CC courses for both children if campuses are still closed in the fall semester. Kid 1 can get a good foundation for more advanced courses upon return to the Ivy (I'm assuming Kid 1 can make up some hardship story and get a leave of absence, or whatever it might be called, so you don't have to pay the Ivy tuition for the semester). Kid 2 gets what he/she would be getting at the out-of-state public but for far less money -- but you want the credits to transfer.

Both Kid 1 and Kid 2 stay busy and somewhat on track academically.

[pgher]

The Ivy doesn't take transfer credits because it doesn't have to.

Exactly. Not uncommon among top-end colleges, public or private. Well, maybe others "take" credit but don't let it count towards your major.

I like the idea of well-designed online CC courses for both children if campuses are still closed in the fall semester. Kid 1 can get a good foundation for more advanced courses upon return to the Ivy (I'm assuming Kid 1 can make up some hardship story and get a leave of absence, or whatever it might be called, so you don't have to pay the Ivy tuition for the semester). Kid 2 gets what he/she would be getting at the out-of-state public but for far less money -- but you want the credits to transfer.

Both Kid 1 and Kid 2 stay busy and somewhat on track academically.

That's probably the most reasonable contingency plan. Possibly, they could take classes at my university. Kid 1 might balk at taking any classes that won't count for anything, but maybe if they're different courses so they don't displace anything.

Right now, it's just contingency planning, but better to think about it in April than in August.

[Caracal]

The Ivy doesn't take transfer credits because it doesn't have to.

I like the idea of well-designed online CC courses for both children if campuses are still closed in the fall semester. Kid 1 can get a good foundation for more advanced courses upon return to the Ivy (I'm assuming Kid 1 can make up some hardship story and get a leave of absence, or whatever it might be called, so you don't have to pay the Ivy tuition for the semester). Kid 2 gets what he/she would be getting at the out-of-state public but for far less money -- but you want the credits to transfer.

I guess I would think more about the drawbacks for your kids of all of the disruption involved in switching schools. Online classes aren't ideal, but taking online classes at the same place you are going to eventually going to be taking in person classes would provide important continuity. For Kid 1, it might be worth thinking about all the ways that the Ivy is likely to have the resources to keep students engaged. Also, kid 1 already has all these relationships at the school with professors and other students. It is a lot easier to maintain those relationships through a weird semester online than to take classes somewhere else where you don't know anybody and there isn't going to be much chance to change that.

For kid 2, a lot of that might still apply, although it would depend a lot on what drew them to the flagship. If it was about a particular program, you'd want to think about that. If there are basic foundational courses they could take that they would take regardless, that's one thing, but you'd want to think about that.

I'm also curious what they think and how they'd feel about it. As someone who really values stability, I can tell you that as a college student I would have wanted as few moving pieces and changes as possible during a stressful time. Your kids might be different,  but I'd try to get a good sense of what they want to do.

[polly_mer]

The Ivy doesn't take transfer credits because it doesn't have to.

Exactly. Not uncommon among top-end colleges, public or private. Well, maybe others "take" credit but don't let it count towards your major.

One recurring discussion in many circles is the estimated 40% loss of credits upon transfer (to be fair, that's usually about a semester's worth)

The research tends to show that people who end up going to a name-brand institution usually don't save money by getting their general education credits met at a community college or via dual credits because of transfer loss.  Even AP credit is becoming less common at the elite institutions now that "everyone" has it, not just those coming from the top of the top high schools.  AP courses and test scores still indicate that one is prepared for the name-brand education, but it's not an overall cost savings to the college bill.

One reason to not take transfer credit is the name-brand institution is relying heavily on its networking and socialization functions to have nearly everyone graduate in a timely manner and be a successful alum.  The education itself is only part of the equation.  Building the relationships with one's fellow students and acquiring the mindsets, mannerisms, and behaviors that one associates with that brand is important both to the graduates so they meet expectations of those out in the world and to the university's brand as people experience it.

Too many disappointed employers by not getting the type of person they expect and the university's name is no longer nearly as valuable on a diploma.

Those same social reasons are cited by students and parents for why taking a gap year and doing something else is a better use of time/resources than dropping down a couple tiers to focus on the education more cheaply.  An accredited nursing/social work/education/engineering program is probably fine from nearly anywhere.  However, when you're banking on the social network and/or the brand-name, then a gap year is pretty reasonable as a trade-off.

[ciao_yall]

When I was in college I was encouraged to take a few electives at a local CC to save money.

I didn't want to waste the time.

I worried about taking these electives only to find out that they didn't actually transfer, in the fine print, in the way I needed them to, and end up delaying graduation.

At least if I took classes at my home institution it was clear. Requirement X can be filled by these classes. Check the box. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[jerseyjay]

I agree that it is probably too early to figure out what will happen in the fall.

That being said, the first thing I would do is to ask your kids what they want. Do they want to return/start school if it is only online? Or would they prefer to wait? I am not sure, to be honest, what I would choose in their situation.

Then, I would see what are the options at each school. Are they allowing students to defer/take time off until the school actually reopens? Would this entail and financial or other costs?

If you (plural) decide that delaying is the preferred choice, and if that is possible, then I would try to figure out what to do instead. As long as it does not involve sitting at home doing nothing, there are many options, depending again on how opened up the world is in fall.  They could take classes at a CC or local school, including yours. (I am not sure whether taking an online class at your CC would be worse than at Harvard. Harvard is Harvard, but the local CC might actually have better teachers with more online experience.) But they could get a job, volunteer, or do something else productive with their time. Even if the time is "lost" in terms of academic credits, they might gain some useful experience out of it.

In terms of Ivy transfer credits: a long time ago I taught an intro course for the summer session of a local public university. It was an R1, but a public school with much lower costs and admission requirements than the Ivy about 1.5 miles away. A student from said Ivy took my class (it was not her major) with the idea of saving thousands of dollars. For what it is worth, the text book was written by a member of the Ivy's faculty who had, several decades ago, taught for the school I was teaching for. The amount of paperwork I had to fill out, including my own CV and syllabus, for the student to get credit was absurd. Every two months or so, the student would email me asking for some other document or letter requested by the department or the registrar at the Ivy. When I stopped teaching as an adjunct at the school, I still don't think she had got credit.

I figured that it was a combination of the Ivy not wanting to lose money, conceit about its own prestige, and, to be honest, the fact that a summer course taught by an adjunct at a public university is not the same quality as a regular course at an Ivy, even one taught by a grad student. I know this because several colleagues had been TAs at said Ivy, and the amount and quality of work required for an intro class is quite different.

[fourhats]

The other question is whether the university will even allow them to defer. In this strange time, it's possible they are trying to build an entering class now and keep them, as a way to make sure they meet their enrollment targets.

If they go online at the university they hope to attend, they will be in class (however it's offered) with other students in the same boat, and begin building contacts and community for when things open up again.

[Anselm]

Here is another thing to worry about.   Suppose the schools pretend that life is going back to normal and students move into dormitories in August.  Then the second wave of the virus hits in October and students are then asked to vacate their rooms within a week.  How long can this game be played without wreaking havoc on students and family budgets?