Fall 2020 Enrollment numbers

[Aster]

We're down by a lot, but it's almost entirely our own fault.

Our dumb#$% senior administration freaked out back in May about low enrollments, and cancelled massive amounts of course sections for the Fall term. And then come August, most all of the remaining classes filled to capacity, and we were left with a massive student demand for classes that were no longer available.

So, all of our remaining classes are at full capacity (or even overloaded), but our overall number of sections is way down because our senior administration cut those sections out before Fall registration even began.

Idiots.

[Parasaurolophus]

We're down by a lot, but it's almost entirely our own fault.

Our dumb#$% senior administration freaked out back in May about low enrollments, and cancelled massive amounts of course sections for the Fall term. And then come August, most all of the remaining classes filled to capacity, and we were left with a massive student demand for classes that were no longer available.

So, all of our remaining classes are at full capacity (or even overloaded), but our overall number of sections is way down because our senior administration cut those sections out before Fall registration even began.

Idiots.

Wow.

Ours just told each department to come up with a plan for which sections to cut if enrollments fell by x%, y%, and z%, and happily they held off on actually cancelling sections until the reg period.

[the_geneticist]

We're down by a lot, but it's almost entirely our own fault.

Our dumb#$% senior administration freaked out back in May about low enrollments, and cancelled massive amounts of course sections for the Fall term. And then come August, most all of the remaining classes filled to capacity, and we were left with a massive student demand for classes that were no longer available.

So, all of our remaining classes are at full capacity (or even overloaded), but our overall number of sections is way down because our senior administration cut those sections out before Fall registration even began.

Idiots.

We were supposed to cut seats in the "Basketweaving for non-basketweavers" courses to save money on TA positions.  The dean asked for ways to save, then department said "if you insist we can cut classes", and we were prepared to take a huge hit in enrollment.  But the staff member in charge of posting courses never got the email.  No classes got cut!  Now, those classes are all full.  The dean is upset that we need TAs (TAs cost money!), but happy that the classes are full (yay for tuition money!).  It's a mess.

[Aster]

So maybe a lot of my institution's students ended up enrolling at your institution, because yours still had open seats. I guess that's a win for Higher Education.

[dr_codex]

So maybe a lot of my institution's students ended up enrolling at your institution, because yours still had open seats. I guess that's a win for Higher Education.

Well, they aren't coming to my place, because we did something similar and now have no seats. The wave of deaths/retirements/compassionate leaves among the faculty at the end of the summer are compounding the problem. Requests for us to teach overloads are mounting. (That's actually a good deal for administration, which is one reason that I usually refuse to do it.) Meetings are going to be grim affairs for the near future.

[the_geneticist]

So maybe a lot of my institution's students ended up enrolling at your institution, because yours still had open seats. I guess that's a win for Higher Education.

Well, they aren't coming to my place, because we did something similar and now have no seats. The wave of deaths/retirements/compassionate leaves among the faculty at the end of the summer are compounding the problem. Requests for us to teach overloads are mounting. (That's actually a good deal for administration, which is one reason that I usually refuse to do it.) Meetings are going to be grim affairs for the near future.

The upper division and majors lower division classes have open seats.  Most of the registered students in the non-majors are seniors from other majors fulfilling a graduation requirement.  I think a lot of our second years are either taking a year off or transferred to the local community college (which is bursting at the seams with new students).  No one wants to pay full price for all online classes when you can get better quality online classes for cheaper at the cc.

[apl68]

So maybe a lot of my institution's students ended up enrolling at your institution, because yours still had open seats. I guess that's a win for Higher Education.

Well, they aren't coming to my place, because we did something similar and now have no seats. The wave of deaths/retirements/compassionate leaves among the faculty at the end of the summer are compounding the problem. Requests for us to teach overloads are mounting. (That's actually a good deal for administration, which is one reason that I usually refuse to do it.) Meetings are going to be grim affairs for the near future.

The upper division and majors lower division classes have open seats.  Most of the registered students in the non-majors are seniors from other majors fulfilling a graduation requirement.  I think a lot of our second years are either taking a year off or transferred to the local community college (which is bursting at the seams with new students).  No one wants to pay full price for all online classes when you can get better quality online classes for cheaper at the cc.

I would expect a lot of students to be heading for the cheapest possible alternative this year, since pricier schools simply can't offer much of the "college experience" for the premium price. 

Wonder how many students are going to end up taking gap years--even though there's not much that makes doing that attractive either.

[dr_codex]

So maybe a lot of my institution's students ended up enrolling at your institution, because yours still had open seats. I guess that's a win for Higher Education.

Well, they aren't coming to my place, because we did something similar and now have no seats. The wave of deaths/retirements/compassionate leaves among the faculty at the end of the summer are compounding the problem. Requests for us to teach overloads are mounting. (That's actually a good deal for administration, which is one reason that I usually refuse to do it.) Meetings are going to be grim affairs for the near future.

The upper division and majors lower division classes have open seats.  Most of the registered students in the non-majors are seniors from other majors fulfilling a graduation requirement.  I think a lot of our second years are either taking a year off or transferred to the local community college (which is bursting at the seams with new students).  No one wants to pay full price for all online classes when you can get better quality online classes for cheaper at the cc.

I would expect a lot of students to be heading for the cheapest possible alternative this year, since pricier schools simply can't offer much of the "college experience" for the premium price. 

Wonder how many students are going to end up taking gap years--even though there's not much that makes doing that attractive either.

As I've posted elsewhere, in any other circumstance I'd expect a mass rush to take gap years. But if you cannot travel, and cannot work, the prospect looks much dimmer.

Online CC programs do look good, especially when compared to cobbled together "distance learning experiences".

[Chris J]

My medium sized CC in the NE is down in enrollment by 15%.

[polly_mer]

CCs only look good for students planning to enroll at institutions that will transfer credit in.  The elite institutions don't do transfer credit in general.  Thus, a year at home with one's personal projects might be very appealing over credits that won't transfer or expensive online courses with minimal peer-to-peer networking.

Students who follow the news may also be wary of how many good-online-courses will actually transfer in useful ways.  Getting credits for 'all' the elective slots while still missing gen ed requirements can be suboptimal.

[Ruralguy]

There are more non-elites than elites. My school will transfer on a tremendous amount of credit (amount to at least half).  Probably not at all useful for juniors or seniors, but definitely for some freshmen and sophomores.

[polly_mer]

There are more non-elites than elites. My school will transfer on a tremendous amount of credit (amount to at least half).  Probably not at all useful for juniors or seniors, but definitely for some freshmen and sophomores.

We've discussed lost credits on these fora a few months ago.

The past couple years have had a steady stream of reports on students losing more than a semester's worth of credit by transferring.

The past couple years have also had a steady stream of reports of entering college students who had so much credit from AP and dual enrollment that they start as sophomores at the non-elite institutions.  Our local high school tends to have a list of dozens of people who finish high school with an associate's degree.

[TreadingLife]

There are more non-elites than elites. My school will transfer on a tremendous amount of credit (amount to at least half).  Probably not at all useful for juniors or seniors, but definitely for some freshmen and sophomores.

Ditto at my institution. We require 120 credits to graduate and will allow students to transfer in up to 60. Based on prior posts, it sounds like Ruralguy and I work at very similar institutions.

[polly_mer]

There are more non-elites than elites. My school will transfer on a tremendous amount of credit (amount to at least half).  Probably not at all useful for juniors or seniors, but definitely for some freshmen and sophomores.

Ditto at my institution. We require 120 credits to graduate and will allow students to transfer in up to 60. Based on prior posts, it sounds like Ruralguy and I work at very similar institutions.

The question then becomes what happens to those credits.  I remember many 'fun' conversations that turned out students had 6-8 semesters left after transferring 60 credits because the credits didn't count for the major or all the required gen eds. 

There were some really sad stories of students who had taken practically nothing for their majors at the CC and thus had eight semesters left of part-time attendance to work through the prerequisites in order with no option to go full-time with federal financial aid covering extra electives.

[the_geneticist]

CCs only look good for students planning to enroll at institutions that will transfer credit in.  The elite institutions don't do transfer credit in general.  Thus, a year at home with one's personal projects might be very appealing over credits that won't transfer or expensive online courses with minimal peer-to-peer networking.

Students who follow the news may also be wary of how many good-online-courses will actually transfer in useful ways.  Getting credits for 'all' the elective slots while still missing gen ed requirements can be suboptimal.

My campus has a lot of transfers from our local cc.  The advising between both is excellent.  There is a "transfer agreement" between the in-state community colleges and the big state universities.
The issue is that who ever designed the "transfer agreement" made the HUGE assumption that students would take classes at exactly one cc, and complete entire course series before transferring to one university.  Nope, it's nowhere near that neat & tidy.  The cc are close enough together that students will take classes at 3 (or 4, or more!) different colleges.  We have the additional complication of quarters vs semesters too.  And students run into issues if/when they change majors.