Understanding the mindset of a teaching university

[Aster]

There is a great deal of operational range within both types of institutions. Sometimes the range is so great as to there not being a coherent difference between the two.

Much depends on the specific institution's overall academic culture, the specific institution's size, specific faculty teaching loads, the specific academic culture *within* departments, etc...

But eigen pretty much pegged it here.

Most good teaching universities are looking for faculty who will maintain active, if less productive, research trajectories and who genuinely love being innovative teachers.

[Katrina Gulliver]

There is nothing good about spoon-feeding students but this is a reality that I have to cope with and yes I do give an A to unqualified students like all my colleagues do (I know because the distribution of grades per professor is published information at our university).

If this isn't a shining beacon to the priorities of the institution, I don't know what is.

Published to everyone, including students, or just shared within the faculty?

[the-tenure-track-prof]

It is accessible on the university`s website and can be accessed by students too. However, it is not easy to find on university`s pages. Students may not know that these pages even exist (they barely manage to log into the course page. For many students the mere submission of a paper is such a big deal). I started to ask students to send me their papers via email.

There is nothing good about spoon-feeding students but this is a reality that I have to cope with and yes I do give an A to unqualified students like all my colleagues do (I know because the distribution of grades per professor is published information at our university).

If this isn't a shining beacon to the priorities of the institution, I don't know what is.

Published to everyone, including students, or just shared within the faculty?

[the-tenure-track-prof]

I agree with a lot of what you said. I taught at one of the top 10 private R1 universities and the difference between graduate students there and at the university where I am today is magnificent.
The university that I am at right now is a teaching university with graduate and doctoral programs. I teach mainly graduate students however, the level of what its called graduate level here is equivalent to high school. The student population is very troubled population in a rural area and most of them work long hours and school for them is just something on the side and they don't have any positive role modeling for what it means to be intellectual, academician, why science is important, why scientific methods matter. These are basics at the universities I come from.
To give an example: last semester I taught graduate students a class that involved a lot of reading and thinking about efficacy and effectiveness in treatment. I am not going to go into details about the months that I`ve spent preparing my lectures and all the innovative material and gues lecturers that I brought to class, but I`ve discovered that very little from what I taught actually they cared about or bothered to understand. For me this is odd but then when I started to understand of how deprived the population in this region is I started to see that if they struggle with basics such as housing, health care and employment, how would someone like this really care about anything more than just to "finish" school and get the diploma. It is important to note that most graduates either don't get hired or if they are hired they get job offers in extremely rural areas where they are no opportunities for advancement.
That being said, some of them are talented, ambitious and smart but they cant really compete in the job market also because of lack of experience (they dont attend conferences, they dont co-author publications with fauclty members, they dont have TA opportunities, etc.).

At research universities, research and grants are the major activities that the university cares about. Teaching at research universities doesn't encourage spoon-feeding and the private R1 universities, as well as public research universities (to some extent), don't give a damn whether a student drops out or not after the university takes the student`s money. This makes a VERY BIG difference between the parental attitude of the teaching universities and between research universities. I completely disagree that there is one American way which is to raise poorly educated spoon-fed students. Nothing could be further from the truth in a broad range of serious universities in the U.S and I know that because I was a student and professor at those universities.

Teaching at R1 universities can range considerably. Having worked at one of the top 10 and advised undergraduates good enough to be invited to do research - the spoon feeding elements were still there, perhaps less so, but nonetheless present. The grade inflation is also ubiquitous - from top to bottom (and is the same for high school admits). You just get more pressure from students to inflate the further down you go. To get a HD (A equivalent) at my undergraduate institution was the equivalent to being a God - if you regularly scored at that level you were something special. There is definitely an attitude difference between the two types of university, and the distribution of the talents of the student populations also tends to be skewed higher. However, many of the students we get are extremely talented, and chose us over the bigger more prestigious R1s due to all faculty instruction, simply because in my field they use undergraduates as a way to fund TAs for their research agendas. And there is a huge difference between a TA who teaches a course as compared to the actual professor being there.

There is nothing good about spoon-feeding students but this is a reality that I have to cope with and yes I do give an A to unqualified students like all my colleagues do (I know because the distribution of grades per professor is published information at our university). I can tell you that once I started to treat my students like babies this semester and giving them multiple attempts to take the same test (so basically to learn the test, not the material), my scores in the course evaluation skyrocketed which if anything shows the insignificant correlation between learning the teaching evaluation which time after time has been investigated in published studies that showed that there is no correlation between knowledge gaining and learning and between course evaluation, rather research shows that it is the student expects to receive an A from this or that professor that will determine the course evaluation score for the professor. In my institution, the so-called course evaluations are not even a reliable survey tool with numerous biases in the survey which is a completely different topic.

Well, I guess thats one way to go about it. Perhaps your student population is less well prepared than those I teach (low end R2), or maybe your field sees a sharper gradient. I go in with the mentality that I want to teach the students, and in doing so give them a fair appreciation of their grades. I'm clear and upfront about challenging them, and despite average GPAs published in accessible documents on the 2.6 range for my courses still get top shelf course evaluations. Granted, some students still expect to be spoon fed and can lead to to the odd bad score, but it comes down to approach. You can either 'buy' a student's respect through a mechanism like the one you describe, or find a way to earn it through learning how to get them to perform the best within their talent set. You don't have to compromise your approach because your colleagues are (and most faculty are very aware of how problematic SOS are and unless the student comments indicate a systematic problem won't cause issue - just ask most folks in the education departments who teach students before they go and do rotations - a true Dunning-Kruger effect). Just because a student doesn't test well, doesn't mean that they aren't learning - I was a rubbish test taker, but this has allowed me to focus on targeted assessments that better encompass a wider range of skillsets. No-one needs to ever solve a partial differential equation, or write an essay or the world is going to end.

[Ruralguy]

Start thinking about how to educate disaffected, sometimes disinterested and always tired students. That's your job now, not just some annoying thing to do to pass the time between writing papers. The sooner you see that, the better the chances of surviving where you are. I'm not saying you can't apply out. Go ahead, but do so from a position of strength (publications AND strong recc's from current place).

[the-tenure-track-prof]

Thank you for sharing your insights and wisdom. I really needed to hear that. Much appreciated!

Start thinking about how to educate disaffected, sometimes disinterested and always tired students. That's your job now, not just some annoying thing to do to pass the time between writing papers. The sooner you see that, the better the chances of surviving where you are. I'm not saying you can't apply out. Go ahead, but do so from a position of strength (publications AND strong recc's from current place).

[Hegemony]

I think you may have an unrealistic view of R1 universities. Mine certainly cares about students even after they deposit their money. They work hard to keep students from dropping out. We all do. Right now my students are having a hard time, with lack of internet access, pandemic worries, being back home working on farms, and so forth. I am emailing some of them daily. When they fail to show up for an assignment, first I email them, and when I don't hear back, I pass them over to an office whose sole purpose is to contact and help students in difficulties. Now, it's true that because we're a big place, and underfunded, we can't always give a student in difficulties the degree of attention that a small liberal arts college could. But the university cares and does what it can.

OP, you may not have heard the saying of the Fora, "You have to teach the students you have, not the students you want." Your students are arguably more motivated than the affluent students of a top-ten R1, who have always assumed they'd go to college, and whose parents have amply supplied them with tutors and special resources along the way, and who don't have to work to afford the fees. It takes a lot of determination to overcome a weak school system, inability to afford college, having to study while working and often while taking care of children or other family members, and a background that is unfamiliar with the system. Those students deserve instructors who appreciate what they bring to the table and what it required for them to get there in the first place.

[tuxthepenguin]

The university that I am at right now is a teaching university with graduate and doctoral programs. I teach mainly graduate students however, the level of what its called graduate level here is equivalent to high school.

We hire people like you every so often. They stick around for a few years until we tell them the probability of getting tenure is 0%. And that's a good thing, because people like you should not be teaching.

[the-tenure-track-prof]

I don't pursue teaching so I don't really care. However, the university I am at gave tenure to a colleague who have bad rating by students, and never published. Now after tenure he barely shows up, no one knows where on earth he spends his time because he is never the school. Another colleague a year ahead of me, she literally never shows up in her office. She never ever touch a paper, she doesn't prepare any syllabus, she doesn't know anything about the library services which is important for her classes, she told me that she spends all her time at home doing nothing, and she was just informed that she is going to get tenured (she is only 2 nd year). She thought that they will fire her because she doesnt work plain and simple (she said that also but as a way to make others feeling sorry for her because she has kids). This is a university in the south and not a small libreal college.
That being said, I would suggest that before you pass judgment to make sure that you know well all the details, and that what you say is applicable and relevant to the university. Finally, I dont know about other people here, but I know universities that gave tenure to faculty who their work is plain bad whether in teaching or research.

The university that I am at right now is a teaching university with graduate and doctoral programs. I teach mainly graduate students however, the level of what its called graduate level here is equivalent to high school.

We hire people like you every so often. They stick around for a few years until we tell them the probability of getting tenure is 0%. And that's a good thing, because people like you should not be teaching.

[Hegemony]

I don't pursue teaching so I don't really care.

I am surprised that you think it is ethical to work at a university, especially a teaching university where the students are especially in need of excellent, dedicated teachers, when you are so contemptuous of teaching and of the students. It certainly sounds as if you are doing no better than the professors you complain about.

I also wonder if you are one of the other posters on these Fora under a different name, as your English is again non-native — or else you are a badly educated speaker yourself. Presumably the students you disdain actually do have native command of the rules of English. Not that I am critical of non-native speakers — unless they hold themselves up as inherently superior to others.

[Wahoo Redux]

I don't pursue teaching so I don't really care. However, the university I am at gave tenure to a colleague who have bad rating by students, and never published. Now after tenure he barely shows up, no one knows where on earth he spends his time because he is never the school. Another colleague a year ahead of me, she literally never shows up in her office. She never ever touch a paper, she doesn't prepare any syllabus, she doesn't know anything about the library services which is important for her classes, she told me that she spends all her time at home doing nothing, and she was just informed that she is going to get tenured (she is only 2 nd year). She thought that they will fire her because she doesnt work plain and simple (she said that also but as a way to make others feeling sorry for her because she has kids). This is a university in the south and not a small libreal college.

You know, of course, that you have corrupt cops, lazy janitors, incompetent doctors, lame politicians, lousy high school teachers, stupid cover bands, sloppy mechanics, and really bad internet poets.

There is deadwood everywhere.

Again, you should probably do something else if this is your reaction after 1 year on the job.

[polly_mer]

I don't pursue teaching so I don't really care.

I am surprised that you think it is ethical to work at a university, especially a teaching university where the students are especially in need of excellent, dedicated teachers, when you are so contemptuous of teaching and of the students. It certainly sounds as if you are doing no better than the professors you complain about.

Yep.  If the institution is really about teaching, then one should be polishing that teaching to a high gloss.  I've watched people be denied tenure for inadequate teaching while proclaiming their research productivity should have protected them.  Nope, not if the actual mission is teaching master's students who paid good money to be taught.

I also wonder if you are one of the other posters on these Fora under a different name, as your English is again non-native

I don't get that vibe.  This person has a different set of complaints, although both can be summarized as "I want a different job and how dare they insist that this type of job is really being professor!"

[arcturus]

While I agree with all of the posters above, I also have some sympathy for the OP. The first year of teaching can be difficult, exhausting, and demoralizing. I remember those years where I seemed to spend all of my time developing homework assignments, crafting lectures, and throwing my heart and soul into innovative teaching techniques to engage my less-than-thrilled-to-be-there students. At times I thought that the full job of teaching-research-and-service was impossible to do, since teaching was taking up 100% of my life (well beyond a 40-hour work week, to be sure!). Add in advising duties for weak graduate students, who far from contributing to my research endevors were actually dragging it down, and I definitely spent some of my (limited) free time thinking about alternative careers/choice of institutions. Most of my colleagues did not seem to care about my difficulties either, so I was left to fend for myself.  However, while I certainly do not claim 100% satisfaction in my job now, it can get better. First, I no longer need to spend so much time preparing my classes since I am mostly making small tweaks to a well developed course. Second, I introduced a few research-centered activities that would engage the graduate students in the department (not just my group). These were not supported by the faculty in general at first (i.e., they did not attend), but new faculty that arrived after these activities were in place do attend and encourage their students to attend. Third, I initiated changes to the graduate program that I thought would benefit my students and help change the culture of the department. Some of my suggestions were rejected by the senior faculty, but others were implemented successfully. These many years later, I can appreciate more fully the perspective of the senior faculty, but I have also seen a vast improvement in the quality of our graduate program due to the innovations of the junior faculty over the years.

That said, along with the mantra mentioned above by Hegemony to "teach the students you have", I also firmly agree with the fora's mantra of "bloom where you are planted." Think about small changes that you can make that will have large impact. Start a journal club. Arrange for a monthly discussion about innovative teaching methods (don't forget to invite the graduate students!). Attend seminars on teaching/learning offered by your institution. Mentor undergraduate student research projects, as undergraduates may be more talented/motivated than weak graduate students.  Set up a monthly call with your research collaborators. Start a hobby that is completely separate from your area of expertise.  In short, find ways to improve your working environment while also finding ways to enjoy other aspects of your life beyond the university classroom.

[mahagonny]

As I understand it, research work that is worth publishing should be at least a hearty attempt at new knowledge, although much of it serves to illustrate that the scholar knows how to study and document in a credible way and signifies were he to find some new knowledge, he'd be happy to let you see it, and while it's possible that could happen, mainly he's jumping through hoops to get
T & P. Or it may be indeed be new knowledge but is largely peripheral to the progress in the field as it affects society and primarily of interest to fellow scholars. Or, much more rarely, it may be groundbreaking new knowledge that changes history.

At any rate, my job doesn't require either type, but I am a good teacher because I am a successful in-demand practitioner. I can teach at a teaching college or a research university, and students will learn, and I try as much as realistically possible to challenge them and make them think, not spoon feed. Although I do drill them in certain ways.
People who want to research my field could easily do it by studying the work of people like me (and often do), and generally they are not people who can do it the level of me and my cohorts, but occasionally are at that level or higher.
You don't sound very disciplined in your thinking. You complain about professors who are repetitive, yet your OP is not succinct. But I reserve the right to change my opinion.

[Ruralguy]

I also sympathize with the OP. I largely felt the same way at first where I am now. I don't think I was quite as disdainful of my colleagues, but neither did I fully appreciate their abilities.

As much I might sympathize, I really do have to say, OP, that you really don't have much time to course correct. Or at least not as much as you think you might.

You don't have to be friends with everyone or even think that they are brilliant, but you do have to respect your colleagues. You also have to find  away to appreciate the best of what you have.