Post your asides here

[FishProf]

<nr>

How about both?  Identifying one doesn't have to mean invalidating the other.

[polly_mer]

<unrelated>

But do you really "have" to?

ON EDIT, WRT another thread:

At some point, we must decide, "Do I want to argue, or do I really want to try to learn something?"

What is it you think I could learn from people who sound just like the students who insist that something that is mathematically possible is really, truly, no-foolin' going to happen at the end of the term, even though it never does because it's not the math that's the issue?

Pattern matching is a thing, even in the absence of mathematical models that would give quantitative predictions.

OK, I'll cop to the first part being about you--on some thread or other, you mentioned that you "have" to enter into conversations because... well, I guess somebody was wrong? And I wasn't sure you really had to.

But the part you actually responded to? That was about a thread that centered around a ballet company. But your answer? Gadzooks and egad. You strung together 67 words that had no business being acquainted with each other. If I were still in my days at a writing center late at night, I'd take a couple of Bayer and say in my most patient voice, "So what exactly are you trying to say here?"

Recently I am exactly saying: most people who have humanities graduate degrees and are employed in academia are not intellectuals.  Period.

In addition, many of the people here who insist at length that somehow I am lesser because my graduate degrees state "engineering" are uninformed about the research on higher ed, the relevant demographic trends, and most of the entirely predictable patterns that will continue to affect their jobs and related endeavors.  There is a significant overlap in people who don't know about their own market sector and also don't know the relevant science to discuss current events beyond repeating what they have recently read in a mass media article.  There's also a significant overlap between those who don't know their market sector, don't know the science/math, and yet frequently assert that taking college classes in the humanities is vital to learning critical thinking.  The evidence regarding critical thinking outside the classroom states otherwise.

Perhaps I don't have to jump in to give the data and the logical conclusions from those data.  However, if I don't, then the people who could have learned something worth knowing that they can use to make better decisions about their careers in academia (or need to find another career before their job goes away) will be more likely to be shocked and surprised when the entirely predictable reality hits them in the face.

The oddest thing recently in that vein was the "news" that aspiring students and their parents have social media groups discussing college and the focus is on many things other than the formal classes.  The advice by the person sharing that news was perhaps professors should go read those outlets as well to become better informed about that mindset.  The amount of research (even just mass media polls and then reporting on those polls) on that situation is such that one would have to have avoided most of the publications dealing with higher ed in any way to have the situation that few people are in college for the reasons that humanities professors want people to be in college to come as news.

What exactly is it you think I have to learn from people who don't know about higher ed, despite being employed primarily in higher ed and are currently experiencing consequences of failing to learn about their market sector?

What exactly is it you think I have to learn from people who, by their own sagas shared here on these fora, have failed at critical thinking in ways that matter to their lives and now want advice on how to magically fix the situation while still remaining ignorant in the relevant knowledge areas and refusing to make the changes in their own behavior that would help them succeed?

If it makes your writing center self happy, I will rephrase to "Many forumites, particularly those in the humanities in contingent positions, present just like the overly optimistic students in the classroom.  Those overly optimistic students are sure that, because it is mathematically possible to still earn a passing grade, those students will make the necessary behavioral modification to earn all the remaining points and pass the class.  In both cases, the problem is the pattern of behavior up to this point.  The experienced observer knows that while magical thinking is common, the pattern is few people change their behavior sufficiently to make a difference in the outcome on the first try.  Instead, most people have to fail spectacularly and then start over to have the motivation to make the necessary personal behavioral changes." 

Or in other words, I have heard that magical thinking before many, many times from people in the proverbial hole.  I am unconvinced by assertions that somehow this particular individual is special and will make the changes because that's not the overwhelming majority of the outcomes by similar people in similar situations.  Pattern matching is just as valid a predictor as doing the mathematical modeling in many cases and even the humanities faculty ought to be able to understand that.

[FishProf]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[little bongo]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

No doubt. But I appreciate the added context. Polly_Mer's argument and way of looking at us humanities muggles makes a certain amount of sense, even if I'm not completely on board.

[apl68]

If it makes your writing center self happy, I will rephrase to "Many forumites, particularly those in the humanities in contingent positions, present just like the overly optimistic students in the classroom.  Those overly optimistic students are sure that, because it is mathematically possible to still earn a passing grade, those students will make the necessary behavioral modification to earn all the remaining points and pass the class.  In both cases, the problem is the pattern of behavior up to this point.  The experienced observer knows that while magical thinking is common, the pattern is few people change their behavior sufficiently to make a difference in the outcome on the first try.  Instead, most people have to fail spectacularly and then start over to have the motivation to make the necessary personal behavioral changes." 

Or in other words, I have heard that magical thinking before many, many times from people in the proverbial hole.  I am unconvinced by assertions that somehow this particular individual is special and will make the changes because that's not the overwhelming majority of the outcomes by similar people in similar situations.  Pattern matching is just as valid a predictor as doing the mathematical modeling in many cases and even the humanities faculty ought to be able to understand that.

That's a fair observation, although I don't believe that people in the humanities are more or less prone to that sort of magical thinking than anybody else.  We just see and hear more about that particular kind of magical thinking in academic circles.

[FishProf]

Sometimes an Aside is just an Aside.  Whether an <nr> is included or not....

[aside]

Sometimes an Aside is just an Aside.  Whether an <nr> is included or not....

I'm always just an Aside.

[Parasaurolophus]

Guess I hit a nerve.

[downer]

Shades of Mary Whitehouse.

[FishProf]

I wonder what would happen if we let people say what they think/believe, instead of telling them what they must be thinking/believing.

Crazy talk, I know.

[mamselle]

That's why I'm not going near that thread.

M.

[jimbogumbo]

You are some bizarre piece of work.

[mahagonny]

Mark McKinnon on CNN needs to lose the cowboy hat. If I can put on a tie at my salary, so can he. CNN's already playing a deck full of race cards.

You are some bizarre piece of work.

No doubt. But whatever trouble I have, I've come by it honestly. I stand out in the open. I don't lurk and let thug academics
do my bidding for me.

[FishProf]

<NR>

I'm looking for that solution you posted a while back.  There one where you told us how to fix that problem you keep raising. 

Hmmm, can't seem to find that.

Must be the search engine.

[jimbogumbo]

Mark McKinnon on CNN needs to lose the cowboy hat. If I can put on a tie at my salary, so can he. CNN's already playing a deck full of race cards.

You are some bizarre piece of work.

No doubt. But whatever trouble I have, I've come by it honestly. I stand out in the open. I don't lurk and let thug academics
do my bidding for me.

? I was referring to someone else whose history I had been reading. it can be about you if you want I guess.

Are you suggesting I am a lurker?