What is my function as a postdoc?

[thetweedybiologist]

Hi everyone. First time here. Someone had recommended this site as a good place to ask questions and discuss academia in general, so I look forward to hearing from you all.

I started my postdoc in the beginning of the academic year, i.e. in September, and have been struggling with it recently. Obviously there are general issues such as workload and moving to a new place (now compounded thanks to the pandemic) but I've been dealing with a larger, more existential question. What is my role as a postdoc? I sort of knew what I had to do as a grad student, but as a postdoc, I'm largely unaware of what is expected of me. What should my research output be? Am I to be a lab organizer? Am I expected to be a lab mentor to the graduate students? My advisor seems to have a very laissez-faire attitude towards my role, essentially saying do whatever you want. However, if I were to truly do what I wanted, I would mostly just write code, not write papers, and smoke a doobie. Compounding my confusion is that despite claiming a laissez-faire attitude, my advisor seems to want me to work in particular ways sometimes. As well, when I was in a lab, I took advantage of the postdoc we had often, talking a lot with them and generally using them for advice, guidance, and knowledge. However, I am unsure if that was an unusual situation and many graduate students don't view postdocs the same way (I definitely went in hoping to be a mentor which looking back seems like something I forced to hard). I guess I'd like your advice regarding how I should approach the postdoc. Also, how will that change considering I just got the PRFB and am no longer technically an employee of the university?

Thanks!

[polly_mer]

Also, how will that change considering I just got the PRFB and am no longer technically an employee of the university?

If you don't have a job and you need the money, then step one is getting another job.

[mamselle]

Could someone translate?

What is "the PRFB"?

M.

[thetweedybiologist]

PRFB is shorthand for the NSF Postdoctoral Research Fellowship in Biology. So I'll be working in the same lab but the NSF will be paying me, not the university

[Puget]

Your job as a postdoc on a fellowship  is to become an independent researcher-- that's what NSF is paying you to do essentially. What that includes is somewhat specific to field and individual, but make a list of (a) what does it take to get a TT position in your field?, and (b) once hired, what skills and knowledge do you need to run your own lab? Then, set about doing and learning those things. (a) generally includes developing your own coherent program of research and  publishing as many high-quality papers as you can. (b) includes things like particular technical skills, but also grantsmanship, budgeting, personnel management and mentoring (so yes, you should be spending some time mentoring grad students, but not at the expense of publishing).

You need to be self-motivated and self-organizing in seeking out and asking for the opportunities and training you need to accomplish this. You are no longer a student, you are now a junior colleague.  If in the process you discover you really aren't motivated to do those things and just want to code, then this would be a good time to make a plan for acquiring a non-academic job that will let you just code-- absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially given my understanding of the biology faculty job market. Observing which parts of your current job you like and don't like can be a powerful tool for deciding what job to go after next.

[polly_mer]

If in the process you discover you really aren't motivated to do those things and just want to code, then this would be a good time to make a plan for acquiring a non-academic job that will let you just code-- absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially given my understanding of the biology faculty job market. Observing which parts of your current job you like and don't like can be a powerful tool for deciding what job to go after next.

Agreed.  My employer hires PhDs in many fields to do coding and mentor students/postdocs as part of the job.

[Ruralguy]

You certainly need to publish consistently, so think about how you would do that given your access to data or modeling or whatever it is you are doing. Think about this in two ways: How do I help my current lab? How do I grow from that and do my own thing, provided its more or less related to what the lab is doing? Keep getting feedback on this.

Don't force yourself into mentoring relationships. Like therapy, that rarely works well. Just look for opportunities such as grad students needing help setting up certain things, getting code to work, or needing advice on where to apply for jobs. If your supervisor wants you to manage a particular set of grad students or a particular project, he'll let you know. I suppose you could say you'd be willing to do it, but show him by day to day interaction that you'd be good at it.

If there are some things your lab manager/grant supervisor, etc. is particular about, just going along with it so long as you are given freedom otherwise, and so long as its not some ridiculous burden or morally reprehensible.

Also, NSF probably has guidelines about what they want post-docs to get out of such experiences. Read them. I'm sure its 50% BS, but the part that isn't could be important.

It sounds like you will be an independent contractor with NSF washing the money, so to speak? I don't think it really matters. I mean, you'll want to be sure you get basic things right such as  amount of vacation days and tax implications, but other than that sort of thing I doubt it changes what the day to day expectations are. The only thing that would be out is say, if your supervisor forces you into 8 hrs daily of data entry or test tube washing with no solid work that can help towards the goal of the post doc.

[the_geneticist]

A postdoc is supposed to be another training period during your career.  If you haven't done so, write down your "five year plan" (as much as one can in these times).  What sort of career do you want?  Then think about what skills, networks, publications, etc will get you there.  It is a time when you are expected to diverge away from from your Ph.D research (in topic, methods, etc.).  You are supposed to have a mentoring team of research faculty to help you reach your goals.  This is the time to write grant proposals, finish up any publications from your Ph.D, and really grow as a scientist.  If that doesn't sound appealing to you and you'd really rather just write code, then polish off your c.v. and get on the job market.

[thetweedybiologist]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I was trying too hard and forcing things the first year. I will make sure to take the next couple of years less seriously.

Edit: spelling

[Puget]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I was trying to hard and forcing things the first year. I will make sure to take the next couple of years less seriously.

I don't think that is at all what anyone is saying here-- quite the opposite!  That you interpret it that way may be informative.
The advice you are getting is to make a clear plan for getting to the next step in your career, whether that is a TT job or a job outside of academia, and then to take responsibility for following that plan.

[Stockmann]

The single most important thing about a postdoc position is that it's very temporary. It's a stepping stone, neither more nor less. If you're looking for an academic career, in most fields this means you need to publish up a storm, and that usually should be your top priority - most academic fields run on "publish or perish." Other priorities normally include networking and making your work visible beyond publishing it. Conferences are good for both.
If you're not looking for an academic career, then my advice is to look for an industry job now - don't wait until you finish the postdoc, start now, esp. if your postdoc doesn't involve a direct partnership with industry.

[thetweedybiologist]

I don't think that is at all what anyone is saying here-- quite the opposite!  That you interpret it that way may be informative.
The advice you are getting is to make a clear plan for getting to the next step in your career, whether that is a TT job or a job outside of academia, and then to take responsibility for following that plan.

Sorry, I should have specified and been more clear about what I meant. I meant "less seriously" with regard to my role in the lab. I was ignoring things that I needed to focus on like developing myself and my interests independent of others for things like collaboration and mentorship. Don't get me wrong, I value those things but I focused too heavily on those at the expense of my own work. I often felt like I had to provide a service to the lab because the PI/university were paying me when that's not necessarily the case.

I remember one professor advising me when I was applying to grad school that I had no obligation to my undergrad university; I didn't have to stick around because of some sense of loyalty. My only service to the university was to become as successful as possible. Perhaps that's also my obligation to this lab.

Edit: I'm also looking potentially at positions at SLACs. What is the advice for a postdoc regarding those positions? Or is it generally the same as a typical R1 TT position?

[Ruralguy]

You rang (SLAC guy here)? First, I should say that a 100-ish ranked SLAC like mine is not the same as a totally unranked, or a 50-ish ranked, or a number one ranked. There is a lot of variety. Anyway...

Since even highly teaching based schools  (save for maybe some, but not all, community colleges) would like you to accomplish some research before tenure and direct students in research (not necessarily published, though that's a plus!) , it would go without saying that you should be building your research program now. That's just a fancy way of saying to publish early and often even if you don't want to be in precisely a "publish or perish" environment.

The biggest "however" is that you should probably also look for *some* mentoring opportunities  and perhaps even teaching a class at least once.

We are very reluctant to hire people with little primary instructor (in front of class, not "just" a TA) experience. We do it when the market isn't in our favor, but its burned us, so we won't do it regularly if we don't have to.  One thing you can do is plan a "gap" year in which the "gap" is actually a VAP.

Nonetheless, in the sciences, we've been regularly hiring folks with post-doc experience or VAP or preferably both. In the humanities and social sciences, we are now more commonly hiring people with one or two books under the belt. We're not really trying to raise standard. In some fields, there is such a glut that we can hire talented Ivy grads.

[polly_mer]

Edit: I'm also looking potentially at positions at SLACs. What is the advice for a postdoc regarding those positions? Or is it generally the same as a typical R1 TT position?

Elite SLACs will want research comparable to an R1, but with research plans that will be done with undergraduates.  They will want to see solid teaching experience and some outreach experience.

The teaching institutions that claim they value a liberal arts education, but are actually just desperate to have students in seats want to see extended experience teaching in those conditions along with a strong commitment to service and mentoring.  That's the exact opposite of what a great research postdoc experience will provide.  Many of those schools don't expect research productivity and sometimes deny people tenure for clearly spending too much time on research and not enough time on service.

If your heart were really in the S(mall)LAC experience, then you wouldn't be in an NSF research postdoc position.

[the_geneticist]

If you really want a SLAC position, you better be setting up research collaborations and building a research program that is logistically possible at a SLAC (e.g. the majority of the work can be done by undergraduate students).  Needing something too specialized or expensive or both is a way to get your application tossed.  Some goes for field work that would take you away from teaching 6 months of the year every year.  Bioinformatics is VERY possible at a SLAC.  Computers are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of space.  Ideally, you'd have a collaborator or three that could send you raw data, especially if one of those collaborators is a new colleague at the SLAC.
You better like teaching and be good at it.  And be ready for a heavy service load.