What would be a reasonable approach to classroom teaching in the fall?

[Anon1787]

My university's mandates:

• Students cannot be required to show proof of Covid vaccinations. The university also cannot encourage, except under limited circumstances, students to get vaccines. For example, the university isn't giving students a TigerCash giftcard for getting vaccinated.


• students should be masked indoors....except the residence halls.

That strikes me as entirely perverse. Vaccination is far more effective than masks, and not requiring masks in residence halls where there will be extended close contact is an open invitation to a super-spreader event.

[RatGuy]

Out of curiosity, does the ban on encouraging students to get vaccination extend to things like exemptions from testing? Where I teach, there is no vaccine requirement, but everyone is required to have randomized testing unless they present proof of vaccination

As of right now, there is no random testing of students. I assume it's because we're not allowed to require or ask about vaccination status, so there's now way to randomly test without also including students who are already vaccinated.

For what it's worth, there's a college in Alabama charging all students a huge "covid fee," but then students can get a refund if they show proof of vaccination. I wonder how that'll pan out.

[Caracal]

Out of curiosity, does the ban on encouraging students to get vaccination extend to things like exemptions from testing? Where I teach, there is no vaccine requirement, but everyone is required to have randomized testing unless they present proof of vaccination

As of right now, there is no random testing of students. I assume it's because we're not allowed to require or ask about vaccination status, so there's now way to randomly test without also including students who are already vaccinated.

Ugh. That makes me feel better about my school...

[Stockmann]

My $0.02: Everyone must either be vaccinated, or get tested regularly. Policing it is problematic, but worthwhile I think. Social distancing is mostly impractical - I don't know about anyone else, but at my campus, in the Before Times, there were basically no empty classrooms, etc from 8 am - 6 pm. Some of these classrooms were bursting at the seams, some did have empty seats depending on the class, but large classes had nowhere to go. The only way you could have social distancing is if the bigger classes stay online and the smaller classes can spread out in the bigger classrooms, but that doesn't work with labs, workshops, etc which require special facilities.
I think it's far more realistic to, in addition to vaccination & testing, focus on ventilation - classroom windows must be kept open whenever feasible, and where not HEPA filters could be used. Also, masking - the problem is policing it, particularly in large classes.

[kiana]

Also, masking - the problem is policing it, particularly in large classes.

I agree, but frankly (imo) the large classes should be primarily online.

[Caracal]

Also, masking - the problem is policing it, particularly in large classes.

I agree, but frankly (imo) the large classes should be primarily online.

I don't teach any classes larger than fifty students, but I'm curious about how much of a problem this is. For those of you who taught in person last year, was it actually a problem? I plan to remind students at the beginning of every class and if I see people without a mask, I'll ask them to put it back on properly, but I suspect that will be fine. Really, the goal is general compliance, the whole thing doesn't fall apart if someone in the back doesn't have their mask on properly at some point and I don't notice.

[mleok]

Really, the goal is general compliance, the whole thing doesn't fall apart if someone in the back doesn't have their mask on properly at some point and I don't notice.

Except that because of exponential growth, and the high R-value for the Delta variant, it does matter, particularly in large classes. For context, when I say large classes, I mean lectures with 200+ students.

[Caracal]

Really, the goal is general compliance, the whole thing doesn't fall apart if someone in the back doesn't have their mask on properly at some point and I don't notice.

Except that because of exponential growth, and the high R-value for the Delta variant, it does matter, particularly in large classes. For context, when I say large classes, I mean lectures with 200+ students.

Right, but what I'm saying is that no intervention is perfect. Masks only prevent some cases even if they are always being worn properly, some people wear masks that don't fit well. Some people are wearing the wrong kind of masks. People taking off masks for part of class or something is only one factor that reduces their effectiveness. It isn't like if everyone is wearing a mask all class, everyone in the room is 100 percent safe and if the guy in the back row takes it off, it suddenly becomes 35 percent more likely that everyone in the class is going to get covid.

With anything you do, you have to assume some level of noncompliance. I'm not suggesting that its ok if large numbers of people aren't masking, or that it isn't worth trying to do something about it if you realize some students aren't. But you do have to accept that you can't be sure everyone is always wearing a mask properly all of the time and move on.

[mleok]

Really, the goal is general compliance, the whole thing doesn't fall apart if someone in the back doesn't have their mask on properly at some point and I don't notice.

Except that because of exponential growth, and the high R-value for the Delta variant, it does matter, particularly in large classes. For context, when I say large classes, I mean lectures with 200+ students.

Right, but what I'm saying is that no intervention is perfect. Masks only prevent some cases even if they are always being worn properly, some people wear masks that don't fit well. Some people are wearing the wrong kind of masks. People taking off masks for part of class or something is only one factor that reduces their effectiveness. It isn't like if everyone is wearing a mask all class, everyone in the room is 100 percent safe and if the guy in the back row takes it off, it suddenly becomes 35 percent more likely that everyone in the class is going to get covid.

With anything you do, you have to assume some level of noncompliance. I'm not suggesting that its ok if large numbers of people aren't masking, or that it isn't worth trying to do something about it if you realize some students aren't. But you do have to accept that you can't be sure everyone is always wearing a mask properly all of the time and move on.

Well, the point I was trying to make is that because of the inevitable noncompliance, once the class is sufficiently large, and the classroom is sufficiently densely packed, then exponential growth is inevitable, and it would be irresponsible to have large classes when the baseline rate of infection is sufficiently high.

[spork]

My employer has announced a mask requirement when indoors on campus, which will have no effect on student behavior outside of classroom/lab buildings (Covid-19 cases in the 2020-21 academic year invariably occurred after holidays and instances of socializing en masse off campus). Now I'm looking for a mask that won't slip down my face while I'm talking. I'm hoping a duckbill N95 meets this criterion.

We have a vaccination requirement also; to date about 5% of the undergrads who are supposedly arriving soon for the fall semester have not provided proof of vaccination and have not requested an exemption from the requirement.

[. . . ]

Well, the point I was trying to make is that because of the inevitable noncompliance, once the class is sufficiently large, and the classroom is sufficiently densely packed, then exponential growth is inevitable, and it would be irresponsible to have large classes when the baseline rate of infection is sufficiently high.

Demonstrated by church choirs, funerals, the Biogen conference in Boston, and, most recently, Provincetown, MA.

[Stockmann]

Also, masking - the problem is policing it, particularly in large classes.

I agree, but frankly (imo) the large classes should be primarily online.

Yes, they should be online. What I was trying to say is that wherever you set the cutoff, the larger classes that go F2F are going to be harder to police.

As Caracal notes, no intervention is perfect - so a multi-layered approach is needed. Given the effectiveness of vaccination and testing, that should be the first line of defense - you either vaccinate or test frequently, no exceptions, but other layers of protection are necessary. Keeping large classes online, mask-wearing and ventilation seem to be both effective enough, and practical enough, to focus on them as additional precautions.
Some degree of non-compliance must be assumed, which is also why the focus should  be on a small number of measures that can be policed reasonably effectively.

[Hegemony]

The parents' network has info that a university in Texas (I didn't catch which one) has mandated that the first three weeks of the fall semester will be online.

What with the loss of revenue from being online last year, I know a lot of universities are going to the wall to keep from being online again. But there are a lot of offices full of nervous administrators watching the delta variant statistics and breaking out in cold sweats.

[Ruralguy]

My college will probably never go online again. It would be asking for sudden death rather than just living with prolonged death. So..they'll take their chances...

[Cheerful]

The parents' network has info that a university in Texas (I didn't catch which one) has mandated that the first three weeks of the fall semester will be online.

UT-San Antonio.  Link posted in Coronavirus thread.

[Cheerful]

For what it's worth, there's a college in Alabama charging all students a huge "covid fee," but then students can get a refund if they show proof of vaccination. I wonder how that'll pan out.

West Virginia, Wesleyan College:  $750 fee if not vaxxed.
Alabama, Birmingham-Southern College: $500 fee