U of C drops SAT Requirement

[Morden]

For some very specific programs (for example, arts programs, midwifery, or interior design), there may be additional screening using interviews or portfolios, but there's not usually an essay or list of extracurricular materials for undergraduate admission. People who want to apply for graduate programs, of course, usually write statements of research interest, etc.

[marshwiggle]

For some very specific programs (for example, arts programs, midwifery, or interior design), there may be additional screening using interviews or portfolios, but there's not usually an essay or list of extracurricular materials for undergraduate admission.

Auditions for music programs are required here. Probably theatre programs would require them as well.

[dora]

The U of C has dropped the SAT requirement for entry:

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/05/21/university-of-california-eliminates-sat-act-requirement-1285435

I am in two minds about this, probably more than two:

-I know there has to be rationing. Question is what the rationing device or devices should be.

-Upon her first standardized test, my wife was contacted that our daughter was a moron [not joking]. We knew that our daughter was not a moron. Proof is that she earned a PhD in Microbiology this past November.

This is serious for many people. Any further minds?

It's good news. I taught at a second-tier U of C before. Even with the SAT, there're so many morons. So why not.

[kaysixteen]

Most Canadian higher ed insts. are public, right, and tuition is enormously lower than even at US public unis-- why is this, exactly?  Because the govts, fed and provincial, still fund higher ed much more than govts here do?  And/or something else?  As noted above, there is apparently very strong uniformity of quality in secondary school ed in Canada across the country, much more than is the case even within most states in the US (someone compared CT to AL, and, while the general comparison is valid, in the sense that the average pub hs in CT greatly exceeds the average AL one in academic quality, CT has shitty urban schools too (and CT also has the lowest level of state, as opposed to local, funding given to public school districts, whereas there have to be some comparatively excellent pub hs in wealthy all-white AL suburbs, right?), but is this uniformity seen in Canadian secondary ed also seen in Canadian higher ed, or are there really the equivalents of Harvard and Williams vs. Northeast Hillbilly JC, up north?  Sadly, there really is no serious alternative to college board tests for American undergrad admissions, as colleges simply cannot compare 'grades' and increasingly even mere course 'titles' on hs transcripts-- this is even true for expensive *private* hss.  Really, they can't.

[marshwiggle]

Most Canadian higher ed insts. are public, right, and tuition is enormously lower than even at US public unis-- why is this, exactly?  Because the govts, fed and provincial, still fund higher ed much more than govts here do?  And/or something else? 

The USA was "formed" by a revolution; Canada was "formed" by a compromise. Americans are highly suspicious of governments; Canadians see governments as a way to come up witha reasonable solution to problems. So Canadians support universal health care and relatively high funding for education, because they see government involvement as the way to establsih relatively consistent standards and universal access. Americans seem (to a much greater degree) view government involvement as overbearing and inefficient. (My impression, anyway)

As noted above, there is apparently very strong uniformity of quality in secondary school ed in Canada across the country, much more than is the case even within most states in the US (someone compared CT to AL, and, while the general comparison is valid, in the sense that the average pub hs in CT greatly exceeds the average AL one in academic quality, CT has shitty urban schools too (and CT also has the lowest level of state, as opposed to local, funding given to public school districts, whereas there have to be some comparatively excellent pub hs in wealthy all-white AL suburbs, right?), but is this uniformity seen in Canadian secondary ed also seen in Canadian higher ed, or are there really the equivalents of Harvard and Williams vs. Northeast Hillbilly JC, up north? 

Not remotely to the extent of the US. Certain institutions have high reputatins for certain programs, but there's not the same obsessive push by parents to get their kids into specific institutions regardless of program.
(But "going to college" is not some sort of cultural expectation in Canada like it is in the US either, even though the rate of post-secondary attendance is higher here, I believe.)

[Stockmann]

Sadly, there really is no serious alternative to college board tests for American undergrad admissions, as colleges simply cannot compare 'grades' and increasingly even mere course 'titles' on hs transcripts-- this is even true for expensive *private* hss.

Yes, there is - much like certain programs have auditions, etc as part of the admissions process, a college could have its own exams as parts of the admission process. Oxbridge in the UK do that, or at last did a few years ago even though England and Wales have a pretty standardized system with A-levels.

[ciao_yall]

Most Canadian higher ed insts. are public, right, and tuition is enormously lower than even at US public unis-- why is this, exactly?  Because the govts, fed and provincial, still fund higher ed much more than govts here do?  And/or something else? 

The USA was "formed" by a revolution; Canada was "formed" by a compromise. Americans are highly suspicious of governments; Canadians see governments as a way to come up with a reasonable solution to problems. So Canadians support universal health care and relatively high funding for education, because they see government involvement as the way to establish relatively consistent standards and universal access. Americans seem (to a much greater degree) view government involvement as overbearing and inefficient. (My impression, anyway)

Very true. I use this phenomena to describe to foreign students our strange obsession with hating taxes and public services.

Other students with corrupt (or worse) governments are equally suspicious of government and even more concerned about what goes into their student records, the presence of campus security guards, etc.

[Parasaurolophus]

Most Canadian higher ed insts. are public, right,

They pretty much all are. The private institutions are religious seminaries and colleges, and they're not at all reputable (except, maybe, for some religious things). The only exception, to my mind, is Quest University, which is private but not-for-profit.

(But "going to college" is not some sort of cultural expectation in Canada like it is in the US either, even though the rate of post-secondary attendance is higher here, I believe.)

It's the highest in the OECD, with a little over 60% of 25-34 year-olds having a tertiary degree, if memory serves.

[kaysixteen]

Sure, individual schools could establish their own entrance exams, but the logistics of this would be nightmarish for most students, many of whom want to apply to a dozen or more schools, and such schools may be literally 3000+ miles away from their home. 

[Hibush]

Sure, individual schools could establish their own entrance exams, but the logistics of this would be nightmarish for most students, many of whom want to apply to a dozen or more schools, and such schools may be literally 3000+ miles away from their home.

If this move resulted in students applying to half as many schools as they do now, the admissions rate would double. That would make students worry less. Of course the same number of students would be admitted somewhere as there are currently.

[Stockmann]

Sure, individual schools could establish their own entrance exams, but the logistics of this would be nightmarish for most students, many of whom want to apply to a dozen or more schools, and such schools may be literally 3000+ miles away from their home.

Institutions could partner up so that bunches of them accepted each other's exams in lieu of their own, or used the same exam. In the absence of a centralized HS system (like A-levels) or standardized testing, I don't see how else other than entrance exams colleges could compare students from different schools even somewhat fairly. I guess they could be compared on the likelihood of becoming generous alumni or of their parents being generous donors.

[Hibush]

[I don't see how else other than entrance exams colleges could compare students from different schools even somewhat fairly. I guess they could be compared on the likelihood of becoming generous alumni or of their parents being generous donors.
[/quote
Watch for the ones who were on championship sailing, lacrosse or polo teams. You don't even have to offer that sport.