The Mental Health Thread

[polly_mer]

I'm glad to see you posting, smallcleanrat.

Sometimes, it is definitely personal.  The jerk at the stop sign probably isn't personally targeting you 

However, the human who has an ongoing relationship who regularly 'forgets' appointments or 'doesn't check emails' when they were expecting correspondence from you is just wrong.

They may tell themselves anything they like, but they are wrong on it not being personal.

The best action I've found is to get better friends and colleagues who are able to manage their time to keep planned interactions.

[Cheerful]

Thanks for posting, smallcleanrat.  Always wishing you the best.  You are a good person. 

Fight on!

[OneMoreYear]

Good to see you writing here, smallcleanrat.  You are worthy. 

Keep reaching out here and any other threads that appeal to you.  Agree with Cheerful; you are a good writer. Your posts are clear, organized, descriptive. If you like language and word-play, join us on some of the fun and games threads.  There's probably a stalled limerick somewhere.

[smallcleanrat]

Thanks so much for the replies, everyone. I think I'm almost through to the other side of this episode. I'm at a point where I feel I've identified why I was in so much distress over this.

Thing #1: Lack of Common Courtesy; Implicit Accusation of Thoughtlessness
Thoughts started to gel after my PI got the days mixed up in his head and ended up being over 30 minutes late for our weekly meeting. I wasn't the slightest bit hurt or annoyed or offended. And so much had to do with the fact that 1) this is not a habitual occurrence and 2) PI apologized and explained he was just juggling so many things this week he lost track of days.

Contrasting that to the course professor's responses to me helped me see why I felt so hurt. When I mention he cut me off from speaking three meetings in a row, someone else may have said "I did? Sorry about that. I didn't mean to." This acknowledges that their actions may have been inconsiderate, even if it "wasn't personal."

Instead he scolds me saying he's been in lockdown with family for months, he sees patients throughout the week, is experiencing a lot of stress, and I need to keep that in mind. He defends Other TA saying she just finished quals, has earned a break, took a few days off for R&R, so I need to consider she has a perfectly good reason for not being able to respond to any of my messages. Maybe she is going through a tough time herself. I need to consider how much stress everyone else is under.

Well, I know my PI is under a lot of stress managing the research ramp up while juggling a family during a time schools and day cares are still closed. He still had enough mental bandwidth to express common courtesy.

And the implication that I lack empathy and was not considering other people's potential stressors felt harsh and unwarranted.

Thing #2: Feeling Less Than the Others
Another element is the feeling of being singled out. If he were treating everyone this way, I could shrug it off as just a factor of his personality. But throughout the term he's been very emphatic in our meetings that we need to consider how chaotic and stressful this term is for everyone, and to do our best to show the students compassion and leniency as far as is reasonable (i.e. be generous with extensions, be available for 1-on-1 tutoring, give them words of encouragement, etc...).

Students have been emailing throughout term regarding sick relatives, poor WiFi in their home area, medical issues, stress about the state of the world overall, and needing to follow their conscience to protest instead of attending class. The Prof. has replied to all of these with an understanding, sympathetic tone, granting extensions and excused absences. He also frequently asks Other TA how she is doing, if the stress of grant-writing or quals is too much, tells her she deserves a break after all that work. Sometimes he would ask me if my workload was manageable or if I needed help/more time, which was nice of him; but I was asked less consistently and my answers were cut off far more quickly, especially as term went on. For the last month or so, he pretty much just stopped asking how I was doing. He didn't stop asking Other TA.

Why are my difficulties worth less consideration than the students' and Other TA's?

Thing #3: Expectations vs. Outcomes
If my wants would have required a substantial amount of someone's time, energy, and mental resources, I could understand being declined, even avoided. But I had thought my wishes here were modest, low-effort, and not outside the realm of normal for the situation (a few minutes more in that last meeting for friendly goodbyes and well-wishing before we went our separate ways; a 15-minute friendly phone chat, or at least a 10-second message canceling said chat; a few lines of an email with some explanation of why none of these things could happen when it could ease so much of my distress). It was hard to accept Other TA and the Prof. would find them onerous to the point of the Prof. scolding me for expecting it and Other TA ghosting me. I thought I had a little more value to them as a human being than that; a painful revelation to learn I was wrong.

Additionally, this is *after* Other TA and Prof. had expressed "concern" and had offered to be available if I needed help.

Thing #4: Completing the Picture
Feeling a fit of conscience to be fair to Other TA and Prof., because there were actually many ways in which they were quite nice to me. Other TA covered my discussions when I was too sick to attend. Prof. sent me multiple complimentary messages on the quality of my feedback on the students' term paper drafts and the students' expressions of gratitude for how dedicated I was to helping them. Both Prof. and Other TA did seem sincere when they offered their support RE: my health which gave me a temporary reprieve from feeling so alone. I'm not so bitter I can't still be grateful for these actions.

[Morden]

Hi Smallcleanrat,
It is reasonable to be hurt by another's inconsiderate actions, especially when it seems like they are more considerate to other people. Whether or not they intended to hurt you, they did. The impact of their actions (promising to help and then not following through or singling you out) hurt. That doesn't mean that you deserve to be hurt, or that you are lesser in any way. But you can't control their actions or reactions; you can only work on your own. Part of that might be recognizing that they can be jerks, or accepting that, whatever they are, they aren't that important to your wellbeing right now. Try to find strength and peace where ever you can. You don't need, and probably can't afford, to invest energy elsewhere. Take care of you (and your kitty).

[Cheerful]

As you know, writing things out can be therapeutic and productive, smallcleanrat.  Good to try to look at things from multiple angles.  As you recognize, people are laboring under substantial stress during these unprecedented times.  Nice to see your reflections conclude with efforts to identify some positive elements in a complex, unpleasant series of events.  Stay strong, fight on!

[smallcleanrat]

Trying to pull myself out of this suffocating sense of self-loathing; suicidality had just started to come down in intensity until I had a conversation yesterday. What I assume was meant to be helpful advice left me feeling absolutely worthless. Nothing I haven't heard before countless times, but somehow it's hitting me harder than it ever has.

1) Being told about people who maintain positive attitudes and optimistic outlooks even in the face of serious challenges: cancer, epilepsy, autoimmune disease...you know, real illnesses. Really puts your own problems seem small in comparison, doesn't it?

Not sure what it says about me if my answer is "no." Maybe I'm ungrateful. Maybe I'm a wimp, unable to handle minor adversity. But if what I'm dealing with not serious then I'm really not equipped to handle real life.

2) Being told to count my blessings and think of the talents and other advantages I have that other people never will.

Had some of this in previous "gratitude" therapy groups. I'm acutely aware of how good I have it, objectively speaking. But I feel nothing but emptiness. These advantages are wasted on me; pearls before swine. And when fatigue or pain or mental fog prevents you from using any of your talents, what's the advantage of having them in the first place?

3) "Laugh and the world laughs with you; cry, and you cry alone"

I know this is often true enough from a descriptive standpoint. What is the prescriptive message? Never expect solidarity or consolation during your difficult times? Force yourself to laugh when you feel like crying so people won't abandon you? Tried it; the whole fake-it-til-you-make it routine. Maybe it makes things easier for the people around me, but living a lie just enhances the feeling of not fitting into this world. Kept it up for years, not that I ever get credit for this; only censure when I reach my limits and can't do it anymore.

Or is the message to transform your inner experiences so your laugh is genuine. Do people really not think that if I knew a way to do this, I would have done it by now?

[Puget]

 smallcleanrat,
I agree that advice, while well-intentioned, is not helpful, and sends the incorrect message that worth depends on being happy, grateful etc.,

I think American culture in general way over-emphasized the need to be happy, in a way that makes people feel bad about not being happy, and also on productivity as a source of value. You are worthy and of infinite value just because you are, not because of what you produce or what you feel.

I wonder if it might be helpful for you to read some Buddhist thinking about suffering and meaning? Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) which has a pretty strong empirical evidence base, also incorporates some of these ideas.

[polly_mer]

Ah, I'm with you, smallcleanrat, that knowing other people have it worse doesn't often help for the big picture.

I have no good advice except to disengage with people who are always looking on the bright side when you need something else for the real problems you have.

Put your own oxygen mask on first and let that be your focus for now.  That's what you need and you count.

[mamselle]

Yes, I was just thinking that some earlier readings might be helpful as well.

Topics like compassion, transcendence and transformation can offer consolation.

Also, I often recall a reading I was told about a long time ago, said to have been by Lao T'su:

   "We learn perfection by moving in and out of it."

The amplitude of the swing may be a bit wide every now and again, but we still each have moments of joy and self-worth, and focusing on those can help to fill the emptiness from time to time, too.

I tell my art and music students to build up a storehouse of remembered visual and/or musical works, to recall when they need to compare something with something else--as we often do in a test--or just to be able to recall on their own, when they want to think about something engaging and healing.

You've done a lot of work in the past few weeks, and you have a lot more support than you had.

People here, who know you now, want to see you find that sense of contentment you're seeking.

You've also learned how to evaluate what's safe to continue with and what you need to let go of--and what to replace it with.

That understanding will continue to grow as you keep reaching out.

Keep knowing you are valued and you are cared for.

M.   

[quasihumanist]

I'm sorry I haven't had the mental bandwidth to help, but I want to chime in to wish smallcleanrat well and thank everyone else for helping.

[polly_mer]

If contentment works for you, smallcleanrat, then reread mamselle's advice.

I've never found that kind of advice useful.  I've always been a bigger fan of figuring out what I can change and then finding the courage to make the change with 'faith' that I could find new friends, new colleagues, and new chosen family.

I left one graduate program and city because everything was always wrong there.  Going somewhere that I fit better with people who wanted the same things I want and value fixed a lot of problems.  That made every day easier, even though research and courses remained intellectually challenging in a good way.

[mamselle]

I also agree with Polly that doing specific things can help.

I think both approaches are complementary. Sometimes we have agency to resolve things through direct action, and we need to do that whenever possible.

Sometimes we need to approach the decision-making and action-taking with a clearer mind and heart.

So how they are balanced out is different for each person.

Part of the work one does is figuring out what that balance feels like and recognizing when we're there and when we're not.

I didn't mean to imply those as exclusive paths. Take what's useful and use it freely.

M.

[polly_mer]

I also agree with Polly that doing specific things can help.

I think both approaches are complementary. Sometimes we have agency to resolve things through direct action, and we need to do that whenever possible.

Sometimes we need to approach the decision-making and action-taking with a clearer mind and heart.

So how they are balanced out is different for each person.

Part of the work one does is figuring out what that balance feels like and recognizing when we're there and when we're not.

I didn't mean to imply those as exclusive paths. Take what's useful and use it freely.

M.

Agreed.

In case it has to be said, it's also possible to simultaneously have a chemical problem that needs to be addressed by medicine and a mismatch between one's current situation and one's more optimal situations.

Telling someone to look on the bright side isn't going to fix a chemical problem that needs effective medicine.  Those cancer patients aren't getting better from just their positive attitudes.

[smallcleanrat]

I wonder if it might be helpful for you to read some Buddhist thinking about suffering and meaning? Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) which has a pretty strong empirical evidence base, also incorporates some of these ideas.

I seem to have cleared all hurdles to enter the treatment program I applied for; they think I should do partial hospitalization instead of outpatient, which is going to be intense. ACT is one of the methods they use. I've had a bit of it in the past, but was never able to get someone to help me past the "acceptance" part to the "take action" part.

Ah, I'm with you, smallcleanrat, that knowing other people have it worse doesn't often help for the big picture.

I suppose there are times when reminding yourself how things might be worse has some value. But I think it's simplistic to think you can rank the "seriousness" of potential problems. My SO has autoimmune disease, but on the mild end of the spectrum. Some people with severer forms of his condition require multiple surgeries and frequent hospitalizations; SO has to take daily meds and has had to give up some things he used to enjoy, but overall his day-to-day life is fairly normal. Is SO suffering more with his autoimmune disease than I am with my psych issues, because he has a "real illness" and I have...what? An attitude problem?

It reminds me a bit of hearing people try to argue that physical abuse is objectively worse than emotional abuse (or vice versa), as though the suffering caused by each could be neatly quantified and compared. Life is more complicated than that; human experiences are too variable.

I'm sorry I haven't had the mental bandwidth to help, but I want to chime in to wish smallcleanrat well and thank everyone else for helping.

Thank you for posting, quasihumanist. It's nice to pseudo-meet you.

mamselle and polly_mer, you both raise good points, and I agree the combined approach makes the most sense. Although trying to get advice about how you can tell the difference between what you can change and what you can't has gotten me nowhere. "Good question. I guess you just have to trust your own judgment." Do therapists really think that's a helpful statement? Especially after telling me previously that my thought processes are being distorted by the depression/mania?

In case it has to be said, it's also possible to simultaneously have a chemical problem that needs to be addressed by medicine and a mismatch between one's current situation and one's more optimal situations.

Telling someone to look on the bright side isn't going to fix a chemical problem that needs effective medicine.  Those cancer patients aren't getting better from just their positive attitudes.

This +1000. I would also add that those positive attitudes can be facades put on for the sake of other people (or to ward off pity). Perhaps they are feeling despair, you just don't know about it. I can't count the number of times someone has told me I "look good" or "seem so much better" or am "in good spirits" when in reality I was exhausted and in pain. But there's no particular reason for an acquaintance or classmate or such to know that.

I have certainly forced myself to go through the motions of life; it won't necessarily reduce the suffering. "Spend some time doing something you enjoy." What if you perform the action, but have no feelings at all? No enjoyment; nothing. Or if you are so exhausted and befogged that you honestly cannot engage in activity? "Don't dwell on sad things." What if the tears and despair emerge as purely physiological, similar to hiccups? Nothing is wrong, I'm fully aware nothing is wrong, I'm crying anyway. Some spells are like that.

"You have to believe you're going to get better." Why? Every therapist conveniently ignores the fact that years before this depressive bout, I was debilitated by migraines, chronic fatigue, and vestibular symptoms. And in the meantime, my hands and feet have reduced feeling and function. No underlying cause identified, no treatment plan in place; doctors have told me not to come back because they can't do anything for me. If the depression lifts but I'm still left with all of these issues and the accompanying brain fog, I still don't see a future for myself. How can I earn a living? What chance would I have at a career? Raising a family?

No one will address these questions with me. It's always "you will get better; focus on that." What do they think I've been doing for the past five years? I want to know what happens if I don't get better. Are there other treatment avenues I can explore? If I have to accept this as my new normal, if I have to accept I will never be as strong, energetic, and healthy as I used to be, how can I plan a life for myself that I find worth living?

Why does everybody pretend they can't hear me when I ask about this?