Postdoc hell, adjunct hell and now research and innovation hell in STEM?

[hamburger]

Hi, I have not submitted papers for publication for the past few years. How is the current situation? At least in the past, the review process was unfair due to anonymous reviewing and in the small niche in my area, it was unavoidable that reviewers were rivals. I had a project stolen since the reviewer was my rival and he on purpose delayed sending the review report and rejected my paper at the end.  Most of the submissions required some sorts of fights and took about a year to get published in high impact international journals. Even some researchers misled the public and made claims without supporting data, they got published because those PI were famous professors in top universities. Even I made some technological advances, some reviewers just rejected the papers asking what is the point of doing such and such. Basically, reviewers could do whatever they like and some EIC just listened to them.

We all know that for the past 20 years, too many PhD have been created. First we have postdoc hell. Then we have adjunct hell. I wonder if there is also a research and innovation hell which is even worse as we not only have to compete with other PhD but also average Joe as many companies hire people who are just good enough to get the job done. Some recruiters also do not have the qualifications to evaluate applicants. People just get jobs via personal connections. As we all know, with the internet and easy access to technologies for the general public, it is hard to have innovations. Ideas are being spread easily and everywhere. People just copy from each other. Know-how to do anything are no longer secrets. From the internet, people have learned to do all sorts of things that in the past only experts could do. Even teenagers can learn how to use 3D printers to make guns, how to build DIY PC which I got big admirations doing that more than 20 years ago, how to make a bomb, how to use ML and data science frameworks, etc. Even people who don't know much about programming can use Deepfake to do all sorts of bad things. With a computer or even a cell phone, anybody can become a video editor and photographer.

These days, too many people can publish books and research papers (at least in open access journals). It is just overwhelming when googling on any topic or searching for books on Amazon. There are so many things that are similar.

Unlike 20 years ago, the entire world has changed. Specialists are no longer specialists. With so many people doing the same things and having access to information and technologies, isn't it hard to innovate and have new research ideas?

[Parasaurolophus]

If the entire world has changed, you need to change with it.

[polly_mer]

Yes, the bar keeps going up.  What are you doing to keep up or go the alternate route to have a network for a good enough job?

[eigen]

To be honest, I see things being less "secretive" as a good thing, not a bad thing.

As a scientist you have to either stay with the wave of "new", or find neglected areas that got passed over that really need more work to shore them up.

And a diversity of projects such that if one gets scooped or stalled, you have other avenues to keep working on.

[hamburger]

I had a very bad experience with a company few years ago. A R&D lab of a famous international company advertised for an open position internationally. I applied. The PI was initially very positive but later on, he said that he had no interest in my research topic. Moreover, he made up the story that he preferred to hire locals due to potential issue related to visa application. I don't believe in him as his company is a big company with many foreign nationals working there. One year later, this guy moved to a university and started a new lab doing the same thing that I proposed! One time I was asked to review his paper. He not only stole my project but also did not cite my work pretending that he did not know about my project. I saw another reviewer asking him to cite my work as one of the conditions to get published. By making the project "Open Source" and have strong support from his home country, his work became famous.

[hamburger]

To be honest, I see things being less "secretive" as a good thing, not a bad thing.

As a scientist you have to either stay with the wave of "new", or find neglected areas that got passed over that really need more work to shore them up.

And a diversity of projects such that if one gets scooped or stalled, you have other avenues to keep working on.

Thanks for the suggestions. To stay current or find new areas, I need a lot of money. Don't know what happened but compared to 20-30 years ago, seems like a lot more people have money to buy things. Perhaps they learned how to make money through the internet. Many things I want to order are out of stock.

Tried to find a TT position the past few years that could pay for the equipment but ended up getting stuck in a CC. Semester has started and never been contacted about new teaching assignment. I only found out that I am not being offered a job when I contacted an administrator. So back to unemployment.

[arcturus]

I had a very bad experience with a company few years ago. A R&D lab of a famous international company advertised for an open position internationally. I applied. The PI was initially very positive but later on, he said that he had no interest in my research topic. Moreover, he made up the story that he preferred to hire locals due to potential issue related to visa application. I don't believe in him as his company is a big company with many foreign nationals working there. One year later, this guy moved to a university and started a new lab doing the same thing that I proposed! One time I was asked to review his paper. He not only stole my project but also did not cite my work pretending that he did not know about my project. I saw another reviewer asking him to cite my work as one of the conditions to get published. By making the project "Open Source" and have strong support from his home country, his work became famous.

While it is possible that this individual stole your project, it is also possible that they came to a similar idea from their own work.  I, too, had an experience where it looked like someone I interviewed with for a postdoc appeared to have appropriated my proposed research ideas. However, in retrospect, I now believe that they were developing similar ideas independently, as we were working on similar topics (which was why, afterall, I had made the shortlist to be their postdoc!). There are few ideas that are so unique that they will not be thought of by several different people. Indeed, the more people working on a similar problem, the more likely that there will be multiple people with the same brilliant idea. Thus, rather than being bitter that someone else has published work similar to your own, be proud that you thought of an idea that turned out to be a good one, whether you were able to follow-up and complete the work yourself or not.

[Cheerful]

Tried to find a TT position the past few years that could pay for the equipment but ended up getting stuck in a CC. Semester has started and never been contacted about new teaching assignment. I only found out that I am not being offered a job when I contacted an administrator. So back to unemployment.

Sorry to hear that, hamburger.  Do you have a sense of next steps yet?  Can you collect unemployment money?  Give yourself a break.  Do nothing for a couple of weeks.  Be good to yourself.  Life is extra hard for so many people right now; you're in good company.

The administrator sounds awful but that's nothing new.  Resolve not to be like that in your own conduct with others.

[hamburger]

Tried to find a TT position the past few years that could pay for the equipment but ended up getting stuck in a CC. Semester has started and never been contacted about new teaching assignment. I only found out that I am not being offered a job when I contacted an administrator. So back to unemployment.

Sorry to hear that, hamburger.  Do you have a sense of next steps yet?  Can you collect unemployment money?  Give yourself a break.  Do nothing for a couple of weeks.  Be good to yourself.  Life is extra hard for so many people right now; you're in good company.

The administrator sounds awful but that's nothing new.  Resolve not to be like that in your own conduct with others.

Thanks. Due to the pandemic, events to meet people have been cancelled. No sense of next steps except spending lots of money to buy equipment to do research and hope to get some publications. Not sure if it is worth doing. Fortunately I can college some unemployment money.

Don't know why I keep checking schools's email account. Perhaps it became a habit. Perhaps delete Outlook from my phone.

[polly_mer]

Have you contacted any colleagues about collaborating on projects to get back into research?

You aren't going to be competitive in any of the areas you've mentioned by buying limited equipment for individual research.

You likely aren't going to be competitive by resuming old research now while disdaining all the new stuff.


If the goal is a TT position in mid-career, then the bar is funding with potential to support a research group, not individual publications.

[hamburger]

Have you contacted any colleagues about collaborating on projects to get back into research?

You aren't going to be competitive in any of the areas you've mentioned by buying limited equipment for individual research.

You likely aren't going to be competitive by resuming old research now while disdaining all the new stuff.


If the goal is a TT position in mid-career, then the bar is funding with potential to support a research group, not individual publications.

I always do my own research and socialize with people outside schools to reduce the chance of having workplace issues. As you know, even among professors, they form groups to fight against each other for resources. Few months ago, when I asked my collaborator of over 10 years ago for reference letters and advice on my poor situation, he had no comment. So I hesitate to contact him for collaboration. Locally, I get zero support for research.

After finding out many schools became business and students of this generation are very different from those 20 years ago, I am not sure if getting a TT is my goal. My main purpose for getting a teaching job were a stable job, qualification to apply for grants and a quiet personal office. Some teaching is OK if the students are hard working, respectful rules followers. My CC cannot offer any of these. My ideal workplace would be a place where I can have a quiet office, have the fund to do the research I like and have no bad people especially bullies. So what kind of jobs should I be looking at?

I applied for job at a hardware store and a cake store. No reply at all. I guess they don't want a PhD to do the work.

[polly_mer]

What kind of jobs should you be looking at?

Well, I think you have to have a very honest talk with yourself regarding the realities of the jobs that exist, your competitiveness in getting those jobs, and what current self-imposed restrictions that you are going to just let go.

For example, I know of zero jobs that are "a stable job, qualification to apply for grants and a quiet personal office. Some teaching is OK if the students are hard working, respectful rules followers" in the areas of STEM you've mentioned having.

I know of research jobs with minimal teaching where people chase funding like crazy to keep their groups funded.  Since you have no active grants at the moment and zero history that I can remember of having substantial grants (e.g., averaging close to a million dollars total annually), my bet is you are not competitive for those jobs.

I know of teaching jobs where people put their hearts and souls into their students' education that includes some mentoring in research.  You have never mentioned wanting this kind of job because you want "respectful rules followers" who will leave you alone in your private office instead of active minds who push hard and expect a lot of personal interaction with their interests.  You haven't kept up in the relevant areas to be able to teach the courses that these kinds of students demand and again there's no research stream (some productivity plus some funding) that makes you competitive for these jobs.

You're not competitive for the industry jobs for reasons we've already discussed at length for years.  The short version is you don't have the current experience with the tools and seem to disdain becoming conversant with the tasks for which companies pay good money.

You're not competitive for basic bill-paying jobs like at the hardware store or cake store because again you don't have the skills.  Nor do you appear to have the local network who would vouch for giving you a chance to learn the new skills because it's pretty clear that you consider those jobs beneath you and will not be an eager learner.

My best advice remains some combination of:

* Contact anyone who thinks fondly of you to collaborate on getting back into research and the funding game

* Make new friends in social contexts who can vouch for what a great person you are so you deserve a chance at a bill-paying job like the hardware store

* Get involved (course or challenge problems) with the current ML/AI/data analyst fields and have concrete evidence that you are now qualified for the current industry jobs that exist.

Like many adjuncts, your problem is exactly the mismatch between what you want to do, what you can do, and what people are willing to pay you.  You're below average in all of relevant markets when being competitive means being well above average in some category, including having local people who will vouch for you learning new skills when given a chance.

[eigen]

I always do my own research and socialize with people outside schools to reduce the chance of having workplace issues. As you know, even among professors, they form groups to fight against each other for resources. Few months ago, when I asked my collaborator of over 10 years ago for reference letters and advice on my poor situation, he had no comment. So I hesitate to contact him for collaboration. Locally, I get zero support for research.

You keep making statements like "as you know", followed by things that aren't really common knowledge. IME, your science lives or dies by your network of collaborators, and building strong collaborations where you are leading as well as collaborations where you play a supporting role is pretty critical to both short and long-term success.

10 years is a pretty long time.

I'm a bit surprised from what I understand your area to be that all possible avenues of research are so high-cost. When I was on the market I had developed projects as a synthetic chemist that wouldn't take more than a few hundred dollars to a grand a year to do with a group full of students.

Is it possible you're just not setting your sights on the right type of project that would be doable with the resources you have?

After finding out many schools became business and students of this generation are very different from those 20 years ago, I am not sure if getting a TT is my goal. My main purpose for getting a teaching job were a stable job, qualification to apply for grants and a quiet personal office. Some teaching is OK if the students are hard working, respectful rules followers. My CC cannot offer any of these. My ideal workplace would be a place where I can have a quiet office, have the fund to do the research I like and have no bad people especially bullies. So what kind of jobs should I be looking at?

I hate to be a downer, but I'm going to agree with Polly: this is not a type of job that exists in the real world. I think you might need to take a more realistic look at what you want and what is available.

I also think you've got some significant rose-tinted glasses when you compare students now vs. in the past, personally, but your statements strongly suggest to me that you should not be looking at jobs that involve teaching.

[the_geneticist]

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you contact a temp agency.  A lot of your soft skills like typing, data management, and multitasking are useful in a lot of jobs.  If you have full color vision & can lift 50 lbs, even better.  Seriously.  But you'll have to go in with the attitude of "I want a change in direction.  I'm willing to try anything for a few weeks.  I'm fine with mindless tasks.  I'm fine with getting dirty.  I'm fine with not being in charge".  You might find yourself doing medical transcription or collating files for a small business or assembling display racks at a grocery store.  But it's a foot in the door for a lot of "bill paying jobs".

[polly_mer]

I just read this article and thought of this thread:

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/your-resume-is-a-waste-of-time-8-better-ways-to-get-hired-for-the-job-you-want?utm_source=pocket-newtab