The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25

[financeguy]

I just got back from lunch and was listening to an air talk episode on NPR. They were talking about the '91 shooting in L.A. by the Korean convenience store owner of a black child. Business ownership came up. The host asked a caller if he "felt there were more black businesses in the community now" and the response was that the caller "didn't feel there were." I'm not trying to get on a semantic diatribe here, but that issue is verifiable by actual facts. I don't know how many more/less black owned businesses there are in the areas or what the reasons for that may be, but the presence or absence of such owners is not a matter of how someone "feels." There are however many there are.

This is the dangerous side of my own argument previously, that we can often let the feels trump the facts, where whoever is the most offended is now "factually correct." I thought it was important to clarify that I do believe the truth is a "get out a jail free" card and if someone wants to refer to someone's biological gender or make explicitly clear that someone is illegally in the country, they are not a member of one of the "ist" groups because of it. They are, however, unlikely to pursued someone to their point of view. Some people (particularly the left leaning twitter mob) need to decide if they want to virtue signal while in cancel mode, alienating anyone not already in their camp or if they wish to actually convince those who do not already agree with them. Two drastically different goals.

[pgher]

Now we have this case.  People jumped to conclusions and rioted.  But the funny thing this time is that the more information we have coming out, it's beginning to look like the evidence is going to point to this in fact being a murder. More keeps coming out each day about their prior relationship and I just heard something else today that, IF TRUE, and it may not be, but IF it is true, makes the likelihood of this being an outright murder much more solidified in my mind.  We're not done getting the facts, but when all is said and done, this one may be outright unjustified and a blatant murder.

So that could point to personal differences more than racism. Or even not racism at all...?

So that would mean BLM loses some its steam, as the perpetrator (Chauvin) was appropriately prosecuted, fired?

Chauvin was the worst offender, but not the only one. Three other cops were there and could have stopped him. If Chauvin were not a cop but just some random guy choking another random guy, the bystanders would have more aggressively intervened and/or called the cops.

Maybe he did it for reasons other than race. I don't know or care. There are no "perfect victims" or "perfect villains." Life is complicated and nuanced. This case, coming on the heels of a few others that are in the news, simply brought to the forefront the broad systemic racism and the militarization of police forces across the country.

[mamselle]

There has now been a suggestion that Chauvin (who worked at the same place Floyd did) was actively aggressive with him and may have been enacting a vendetta. First degree murder charges were mentioned as possible in at least one article.

   https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/

Later the witness changed their account, saying they had confused Floyd with another employee; CBS has updated the article.

M.

 
   

[mahagonny]

I expect this is going to be talked about. A powerful union boss who loves Trump, (even seems to imitate the brash Trump persona) demonizes BLM and defends excessive use of force. Trump, BTW is not exactly anti-union ideologically. He just loves people who are powerful.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapolis-police-union-president-kroll-george-floyd-racism/

[marshwiggle]

I expect this is going to be talked about. A powerful union boss who loves Trump, (even seems to imitate the brash Trump persona) demonizes BLM and defends excessive use of force. Trump, BTW is not exactly anti-union ideologically. He just loves people who are powerful.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapolis-police-union-president-kroll-george-floyd-racism/

Is Trump anything ideologically? Polishing his own brand seems to be about the only identifiable consistent principle behind his actions.

[Wahoo Redux]

Now we have this case.  People jumped to conclusions and rioted.  But the funny thing this time is that the more information we have coming out, it's beginning to look like the evidence is going to point to this in fact being a murder. More keeps coming out each day about their prior relationship and I just heard something else today that, IF TRUE, and it may not be, but IF it is true, makes the likelihood of this being an outright murder much more solidified in my mind.  We're not done getting the facts, but when all is said and done, this one may be outright unjustified and a blatant murder.

So that could point to personal differences more than racism. Or even not racism at all...?

So that would mean BLM loses some its steam, as the perpetrator (Chauvin) was appropriately prosecuted, fired?

Chauvin was the worst offender, but not the only one. Three other cops were there and could have stopped him. If Chauvin were not a cop but just some random guy choking another random guy, the bystanders would have more aggressively intervened and/or called the cops.

Maybe he did it for reasons other than race. I don't know or care. There are no "perfect victims" or "perfect villains." Life is complicated and nuanced. This case, coming on the heels of a few others that are in the news, simply brought to the forefront the broad systemic racism and the militarization of police forces across the country.

And the question will always remain, did he think he could get away with it since the coworker he had a beef with was African American instead of a burly white bouncer?

[mahagonny]

Chauvin was the worst offender, but not the only one. Three other cops were there and could have stopped him. If Chauvin were not a cop but just some random guy choking another random guy, the bystanders would have more aggressively intervened and/or called the cops.

Maybe he did it for reasons other than race. I don't know or care. There are no "perfect victims" or "perfect villains." Life is complicated and nuanced. This case, coming on the heels of a few others that are in the news, simply brought to the forefront the broad systemic racism and the militarization of police forces across the country.

And the question will always remain, did he think he could get away with it since the coworker he had a beef with was African American instead of a burly white bouncer?
[/quote]

From what I have read about the union boss of the Minneapolis police and the consolidation of power he has enjoyed, the excessive force would not have been considered not excessive if George Floyd had not died.

[Descartes]

And now, of course, the latest developments turn out to be false:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads-changes-story/

This is exactly why I don't jump on bandwagons.  Now we're back to not knowing if there was any motivation to this and I can no longer lean towards intentional murder - though the action was still inappropriate and definitely not acceptable.

[mamselle]

There has now been a suggestion that Chauvin (who worked at the same place Floyd did) was actively aggressive with him and may have been enacting a vendetta. First degree murder charges were mentioned as possible in at least one article.

   https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/

Later the witness changed their account, saying they had confused Floyd with another employee; CBS has updated the article.

M.

As posted above. But thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention again.

M.

[Wahoo Redux]

And now, of course, the latest developments turn out to be false:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads-changes-story/

This is exactly why I don't jump on bandwagons.  Now we're back to not knowing if there was any motivation to this and I can no longer lean towards intentional murder - though the action was still inappropriate and definitely not acceptable.

I kind of wonder if the witness suddenly decided he didn't want to enter the maelstrom.  I find the "I mistook Floyd for another employee" pretty weak.

[marshwiggle]

And now, of course, the latest developments turn out to be false:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads-changes-story/

This is exactly why I don't jump on bandwagons.  Now we're back to not knowing if there was any motivation to this and I can no longer lean towards intentional murder - though the action was still inappropriate and definitely not acceptable.

I kind of wonder if the witness suddenly decided he didn't want to enter the maelstrom.  I find the "I mistook Floyd for another employee" pretty weak.

What I find really confusing is that, if I'm reading the article correctly, after they quote him expressing his mistake, the article goes on to restate all of the apparently incorrect testimony. It's 2/3 of the freakin' space!


Typically when a newspaper prints a correction, they say something like "So -and-so attested that he mistook George Floyd for another man. Incorrect information was printed earlier." AND THEN THEY STOP. By repeating the whole apparently incorrect story, they just reinforce it. "Sorry, not sorry." I'm not sure what their game is.

[mahagonny]

Now we have this case.  People jumped to conclusions and rioted.  But the funny thing this time is that the more information we have coming out, it's beginning to look like the evidence is going to point to this in fact being a murder. More keeps coming out each day about their prior relationship and I just heard something else today that, IF TRUE, and it may not be, but IF it is true, makes the likelihood of this being an outright murder much more solidified in my mind.  We're not done getting the facts, but when all is said and done, this one may be outright unjustified and a blatant murder.

So that could point to personal differences more than racism. Or even not racism at all...?

So that would mean BLM loses some its steam, as the perpetrator (Chauvin) was appropriately prosecuted, fired?

Chauvin was the worst offender, but not the only one. Three other cops were there and could have stopped him. If Chauvin were not a cop but just some random guy choking another random guy, the bystanders would have more aggressively intervened and/or called the cops.

Maybe he did it for reasons other than race. I don't know or care. There are no "perfect victims" or "perfect villains." Life is complicated and nuanced. This case, coming on the heels of a few others that are in the news, simply brought to the forefront the broad systemic racism and the militarization of police forces across the country.

As I understand it, Chauvin and the Asian American were the senior members on the force, and each had a long list of complaints against them for mistreatment of suspects in custody. The other two were rookies. Either one or both of them objected to what was being done, but didn't prevent it. I'm not sure how the hierarchy of command works in these situations, but it looks like the best you could have hoped for would have been the two rookies squaring off against the two veterans. In other words, a rumble.
More gasoline for the fire:    https://nypost.com/2020/06/12/derek-chauvin-ex-cop-charged-in-george-floyd-death-could-get-1-5m-in-benefits/

[apl68]

And the cappings in the police-free zone in Seattle continue:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/us/chop-seattle-shooting/index.html

They're up to five now, with at least two dead, within two weeks.  Note that this is CNN talking, not Fox News.

Yet another revolution that has lost no time eating its own young.

[mahagonny]

American Spectator claims it wasn't murder....https://spectator.org/george-floyd-death-toxicology-report/

CNN has a brief report....https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/us/george-floyd-police-body-camera-video-leak/index.html

I suppose if the officers are acquitted there will be more turmoil.

[writingprof]

Also, the new video is somewhat exculpatory.  We know this in part because no one's reporting on it.  (It damages the narrative and thus must be suppressed.)  However, if anyone wants a link and commentary, I recommend Jason Whitlock:

https://www.outkick.com/george-floyd-bodycam-footage-shows-it-wasnt-about-race-will-nbactivists-actually-admit-that/

Let's all try to refrain from calling him an Uncle Tom, please.