The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25

[dismalist]

Yeah. I got the very sentence from here https://theintercept.com/2019/01/31/arrests-policing-vera-institute-of-justice/, near the bottom. The article sympathetically  cites the Vera Institute, which is highly critical of current policing methods. The same statement is made by Heather MacDonald in her The War on Cops. In my googling I have not found underlying data, but have found descriptions of how NYC allocates police, and it is by 911 calls https://www.givingcompass.org/article/improving-the-allocation-of-police-officers/.

Thanks! The reason I was skeptical (and still am somewhat) is the vast amount of police officers I see not responding to 911, but rather doing rather mundane things. I have no doubt that large cities are probably different from the vast majority of what officers do. I'll look more closely.

Cool!

What's at issue is whether crime rates higher among blacks than their share of the population is a "supply side" phenomenon, i.e. police behavior, or a "demand side" phenomenon, i.e. calls for help.

Aside from the direct call evidence from 911, we have the indirect evidence that blacks are far more likely to be victims of crime than their share of the population indicates! Hence, that they call for help more than indicated by their share of population, as most live in close proximity, stands to reason.

[jimbogumbo]

Yeah. I got the very sentence from here https://theintercept.com/2019/01/31/arrests-policing-vera-institute-of-justice/, near the bottom. The article sympathetically  cites the Vera Institute, which is highly critical of current policing methods. The same statement is made by Heather MacDonald in her The War on Cops. In my googling I have not found underlying data, but have found descriptions of how NYC allocates police, and it is by 911 calls https://www.givingcompass.org/article/improving-the-allocation-of-police-officers/.

Thanks! The reason I was skeptical (and still am somewhat) is the vast amount of police officers I see not responding to 911, but rather doing rather mundane things. I have no doubt that large cities are probably different from the vast majority of what officers do. I'll look more closely.

Cool!

What's at issue is whether crime rates higher among blacks than their share of the population is a "supply side" phenomenon, i.e. police behavior, or a "demand side" phenomenon, i.e. calls for help.

Aside from the direct call evidence from 911, we have the indirect evidence that blacks are far more likely to be victims of crime than their share of the population indicates! Hence, that they call for help more than indicated by their share of population, as most live in close proximity, stands to reason.

Just started reading this report with 2011 data. It seems to indicate a more or less uniform distribution of calls by race: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rpa11.pdf

[dismalist]

Yeah. I got the very sentence from here https://theintercept.com/2019/01/31/arrests-policing-vera-institute-of-justice/, near the bottom. The article sympathetically  cites the Vera Institute, which is highly critical of current policing methods. The same statement is made by Heather MacDonald in her The War on Cops. In my googling I have not found underlying data, but have found descriptions of how NYC allocates police, and it is by 911 calls https://www.givingcompass.org/article/improving-the-allocation-of-police-officers/.

Thanks! The reason I was skeptical (and still am somewhat) is the vast amount of police officers I see not responding to 911, but rather doing rather mundane things. I have no doubt that large cities are probably different from the vast majority of what officers do. I'll look more closely.

Cool!

What's at issue is whether crime rates higher among blacks than their share of the population is a "supply side" phenomenon, i.e. police behavior, or a "demand side" phenomenon, i.e. calls for help.

Aside from the direct call evidence from 911, we have the indirect evidence that blacks are far more likely to be victims of crime than their share of the population indicates! Hence, that they call for help more than indicated by their share of population, as most live in close proximity, stands to reason.

Just started reading this report with 2011 data. It seems to indicate a more or less uniform distribution of calls by race: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rpa11.pdf

Wonderful source! But, ah, see Table 2: The share of whites and blacks calling the police in 2011 is indeed about the same, but the white population is three to four times the size of the black population!

Police are going where they're wanted.

[jimbogumbo]

Yeah. I got the very sentence from here https://theintercept.com/2019/01/31/arrests-policing-vera-institute-of-justice/, near the bottom. The article sympathetically  cites the Vera Institute, which is highly critical of current policing methods. The same statement is made by Heather MacDonald in her The War on Cops. In my googling I have not found underlying data, but have found descriptions of how NYC allocates police, and it is by 911 calls https://www.givingcompass.org/article/improving-the-allocation-of-police-officers/.

Thanks! The reason I was skeptical (and still am somewhat) is the vast amount of police officers I see not responding to 911, but rather doing rather mundane things. I have no doubt that large cities are probably different from the vast majority of what officers do. I'll look more closely.

Cool!

What's at issue is whether crime rates higher among blacks than their share of the population is a "supply side" phenomenon, i.e. police behavior, or a "demand side" phenomenon, i.e. calls for help.

Aside from the direct call evidence from 911, we have the indirect evidence that blacks are far more likely to be victims of crime than their share of the population indicates! Hence, that they call for help more than indicated by their share of population, as most live in close proximity, stands to reason.

Just started reading this report with 2011 data. It seems to indicate a more or less uniform distribution of calls by race: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rpa11.pdf

Wonderful source! But, ah, see Table 2: The share of whites and blacks calling the police in 2011 is indeed about the same, but the white population is three to four times the size of the black population!

Police are going where they're wanted.

No, those are proportions. That is why I said it is a uniform distribution in terms of conditional probabilities.

13% of the population made a 911 call. Then it shows you percentages broken down by race.

[dismalist]

Yes, but there is no mention of population shares in the article.

Over and out.

[jimbogumbo]

Yes, but there is no mention of population shares in the article.

Over and out.

You can be over and out, but it is still the case the data are PROPORTIONAL, so population shares are factored out. Just look at the Male-Female data.

Blacks were calling 911 at roughly a 13% rate, just as the other listed races.

[dismalist]

Yes, but there is no mention of population shares in the article.

Over and out.

You can be over and out, but it is still the case the data are PROPORTIONAL, so population shares are factored out. Just look at the Male-Female data.

Blacks were calling 911 at roughly a 13% rate, just as the other listed races.

Damn! You're right.

[jimbogumbo]

Yes, but there is no mention of population shares in the article.

Over and out.

You can be over and out, but it is still the case the data are PROPORTIONAL, so population shares are factored out. Just look at the Male-Female data.

Blacks were calling 911 at roughly a 13% rate, just as the other listed races.

Damn! You're right.

I set a low bar for myself. Right at least once per week. I just met this week's goal.

[spork]

Returning home while Black:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/us/casey-goodson-columbus-ohio-shooting.html.

[marshwiggle]

Returning home while Black:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/us/casey-goodson-columbus-ohio-shooting.html.

Here's how ridiculous this has gotten:

Much about the shooting death of Casey Goodson Jr. by a sheriff's deputy has been disputed — what led to it, why it happened and where exactly on his body Mr. Goodson was shot.

How can there possibly be uncertainty about where on his body he was shot? Did he get instantly cremated?????

[mahagonny]

Ugh...please.

[Descartes]

Nope, I've been burned before. 

I initially believed that Michael Brown was killed by a cop who, from what was being reported, failed to properly de-escalate after the threat and time for deadly force had passed.

After all the facts came out it turned out to be a completely righteous (legally and morally) shooting, supported by testimony from several black residents who witnessed the events and testified to the grand jury that Brown was the aggressor, never retreated, and never placed his hands up and said "don't shoot."  All of that was made up by Brown's friend.

I'll wait to decide whether this person was killed "returning home with a sandwich" until we get all of the details - however long that may take.

[marshwiggle]

Nope, I've been burned before. 

I initially believed that Michael Brown was killed by a cop who, from what was being reported, failed to properly de-escalate after the threat and time for deadly force had passed.

After all the facts came out it turned out to be a completely righteous (legally and morally) shooting, supported by testimony from several black residents who witnessed the events and testified to the grand jury that Brown was the aggressor, never retreated, and never placed his hands up and said "don't shoot."  All of that was made up by Brown's friend.

I'll wait to decide whether this person was killed "returning home with a sandwich" until we get all of the details - however long that may take.

But that's my point; many facts may be hard to determine after the fact, but where the bullets are on the body should be pretty objectively established unless the body has been cremated. Calling this "disputed" suggests it isn't possible to be certain. It looks like just lousy "journalism" if that's the case.

[mahagonny]

Nope, I've been burned before. 

I initially believed that Michael Brown was killed by a cop who, from what was being reported, failed to properly de-escalate after the threat and time for deadly force had passed.

After all the facts came out it turned out to be a completely righteous (legally and morally) shooting, supported by testimony from several black residents who witnessed the events and testified to the grand jury that Brown was the aggressor, never retreated, and never placed his hands up and said "don't shoot."  All of that was made up by Brown's friend.

I'll wait to decide whether this person was killed "returning home with a sandwich" until we get all of the details - however long that may take.

But that's my point; many facts may be hard to determine after the fact, but where the bullets are on the body should be pretty objectively established unless the body has been cremated. Calling this "disputed" suggests it isn't possible to be certain. It looks like just lousy "journalism" if that's the case.

Police are not releasing any information at this time. There's investigating going on at federal level now. Wait and see. We don't need to be discussing cremation do we? Things are unpleasant enough. Thanks.

[mahagonny]

Tangentially related: Jay Pharaoh (my favorite impressionist performing today, top-notch) tells of being detained with knee on neck in LA while jogging.) It think part of the problem with mistaken identity is black faces look more similar to other black faces to many police than white faces look similar to other white faces*. I don't know what to do about it. Many urban crimes are going unsolved; residents are probably afraid to identify perps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV5KpbUPeSU

*while it is considered a racist utterance to admit this about oneself.