The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25

[mamselle]

Chauvin had a history of using excessive force:

   https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/before-george-floyd-officer-derek-chauvin-had-a-history-of-using-excessive-force

People who didn't know he had been their arresting officer were surprised to find out it could have been them.

M.

[mahagonny]

I suspect he still won't be convicted because there is reasonable doubt. The suspect was intoxicated with drugs used for anesthesia and had advanced heart disease.
But one wouldn't be surprised that he was called to the scene. The suspect being 6'7" and somewhat out of control; the two rookie cops were struggling to get things in order. Chauvin was used to these things.
Re: Chauvin's history - police write bullshit incident reports and cover up for each other. Happens all the time. Or forget to fill them out at all, avoiding the paper trail. They have strong unions, and the unions being well funded, they contribute well to politicians' campaigns. They get to keep things out of our view. We are being held victim to corruption.

[ciao_yall]

Worth a read.

https://www.economist.com/obituary/2020/06/04/george-floyd-was-killed-on-may-25th

[mahagonny]

Worth a read.

https://www.economist.com/obituary/2020/06/04/george-floyd-was-killed-on-may-25th

I got all the way through the article. They couldn't resist playing the race card at the end.
"He possibly never knew that this was the same white guy with jittery eyes who had worked at El Nuevo Rodeo, the one so ready with the pepper spray to keep the blacks in line. ■"  OK, Chauvin may be a meanie. Many bouncers are. Was he also a home invader and a peddler of street drugs? What would his friends write about him? No one knows.
See, we've got enough trouble without someone always making it about race. De-escalate.  It's not a hard concept.

[Parasaurolophus]

OK, Chauvin may be a meanie. Many bouncers are. Was he also a home invader and a peddler of street drugs? What would his friends write about him? No one knows.

He's a murderer. He's a fraudster. He delights in violent confrontations. He's abusive (as evidenced by the unusually large number of complaints against him). He shoots a lot of people. He is suspiciously rich. He's a bad cop. He should not be a police officer. He should not be roaming the streets.


I'll leave it, now.

[mahagonny]

OK, Chauvin may be a meanie. Many bouncers are. Was he also a home invader and a peddler of street drugs? What would his friends write about him? No one knows.

He's a murderer. He's a fraudster. He delights in violent confrontations. He's abusive (as evidenced by the unusually large number of complaints against him). He shoots a lot of people. He is suspiciously rich. He's a bad cop. He should not be a police officer. He should not be roaming the streets.


I'll leave it, now.

Well, he's not a police officer. He was fired for the incident. He's not a convicted murderer yet.
Plenty of Americans delight in violent confrontations, at least as spectators. It makes me sick, but it's a fact.
And I suppose Floyd was a 'gentle giant?' Sure, just ask his mom (although she admitted he was a handful). And he was a good father 'when he was around.' And he moved to Minneapolis to get his life together. Read the liberal media with big grain of salt.

on edit: Here it is: "The Houston music scene drew him, too; he was "Big Floyd" in a group that backed DJ Screw, a legendary hip-hop dj, inventor of a new remix technique of slowing tracks down and playing the same track on different turntables ("chopped-and-screwed", hence the "Screw"). Best of all, he met attractive women, by several of whom he had children. He was a good father while he was around."

That's some deft writing. I've never heard being a dead beat dad turned into an accomplishment.

[spork]

Given the trial testimony so far, I'd be very surprised if Chauvin is not convicted of a murder charge. The defense has no defense. 

[apl68]

Given the trial testimony so far, I'd be very surprised if Chauvin is not convicted of a murder charge. The defense has no defense.

Though police shootings often involve a lot of rush to judgement, this one has seemed very open-and-shut from the start. 

[marshwiggle]

Given the trial testimony so far, I'd be very surprised if Chauvin is not convicted of a murder charge. The defense has no defense.

Though police shootings often involve a lot of rush to judgement, this one has seemed very open-and-shut from the start.

The one thing that made me go "Wait! What?" was the video from inside the police car, before George Floyd was on the ground, and with no restraints on his chest, throat, or face, where he's already saying "I can't breathe." Since I'm not a doctor, I have no idea how severe the respiratory problems might have been due to the drugs and pre-existing health conditions. Until I saw that video I was as convinced as anyone else that the only cause of his suffocation was Chauvin. I'd like to hear from medical experts that have no axe to grind either way how serious the breathing problems were likely to have been before Chauvin got involved.

[spork]

Given the trial testimony so far, I'd be very surprised if Chauvin is not convicted of a murder charge. The defense has no defense.

Though police shootings often involve a lot of rush to judgement, this one has seemed very open-and-shut from the start.

The one thing that made me go "Wait! What?" was the video from inside the police car, before George Floyd was on the ground, and with no restraints on his chest, throat, or face, where he's already saying "I can't breathe." Since I'm not a doctor, I have no idea how severe the respiratory problems might have been due to the drugs and pre-existing health conditions. Until I saw that video I was as convinced as anyone else that the only cause of his suffocation was Chauvin. I'd like to hear from medical experts that have no axe to grind either way how serious the breathing problems were likely to have been before Chauvin got involved.

Are you referring to this police body cam video, in which George Floyd is recorded saying things like "Please don't shoot me," "I have claustrophobia for real . . . please stay with me," "I'm not that kind of guy," "I'm gonna die, man," and "I'm going in [the police car], ok, I'm not trying to win"? When Floyd says "I can't breathe" inside the police car, his upper body is not visible in the video and he appears to be bent over or face down (handcuffed wrists are visible) until right before he says "I wanna lay on the ground." He is emotionally agitated, physically non-compliant, or whatever a person might want to call it, but the way he's being treated verbally and physically in the video is at best really sloppy behavior by the four police officers on the scene.

[marshwiggle]

Though police shootings often involve a lot of rush to judgement, this one has seemed very open-and-shut from the start.

The one thing that made me go "Wait! What?" was the video from inside the police car, before George Floyd was on the ground, and with no restraints on his chest, throat, or face, where he's already saying "I can't breathe." Since I'm not a doctor, I have no idea how severe the respiratory problems might have been due to the drugs and pre-existing health conditions. Until I saw that video I was as convinced as anyone else that the only cause of his suffocation was Chauvin. I'd like to hear from medical experts that have no axe to grind either way how serious the breathing problems were likely to have been before Chauvin got involved.

Are you referring to this police body cam video, in which George Floyd is recorded saying things like "Please don't shoot me," "I have claustrophobia for real . . . please stay with me," "I'm not that kind of guy," "I'm gonna die, man," and "I'm going in [the police car], ok, I'm not trying to win"? When Floyd says "I can't breathe" inside the police car, his upper body is not visible in the video and he appears to be bent over or face down (handcuffed wrists are visible) until right before he says "I wanna lay on the ground." He is emotionally agitated, physically non-compliant, or whatever a person might want to call it, but the way he's being treated verbally and physically in the video is at best really sloppy behavior by the four police officers on the scene.

Yes, that's it. He asked to lay on the ground. How much of that was the police presence/actions, and how much was the drugs? Someone with more expertise (and no vested interest) needs to evaluate that.

[Parasaurolophus]

I'm not a medical doctor, but I'm pretty sure that if someone is having trouble breathing, the prescribed course of treatment is not kneeling on their neck for nine minutes.

If it is, they didn't tell us about it in my most recent CPR course.


EDIT: Just to be clear, I think that if you accept the premise that he was having trouble breathing beforehand and he asked to lie on the ground, that actually makes things worse for Chauvin.

[spork]

He's conscious, verbally responsive, and non-violent in the video. Medical experts have testified at the trial that "the drugs" weren't an issue.

[marshwiggle]

I'm not a medical doctor, but I'm pretty sure that if someone is having trouble breathing, the prescribed course of treatment is not kneeling on their neck for nine minutes.

If it is, they didn't tell us about it in my most recent CPR course.


EDIT: Just to be clear, I think that if you accept the premise that he was having trouble breathing beforehand and he asked to lie on the ground, that actually makes things worse for Chauvin.

The point is that the main evidence for how much pressure Chauvin was applying to George Floyd's neck was the trouble George Floyd had in breathing. If he was having serious breathing problems before, it's not a reliable indicator of how much force was being applied.

There are professionals (stunt people, fight co-ordinators) who make a career out of making relatively safe actions appear highly dangerous or even lethal. The point is that how dangerous or painful a situation appears to be in the view of an observer is not the same thing as how dangerous or painful it is to the person experiencing it, and that can go in either direction.

[Parasaurolophus]

I'm not a medical doctor, but I'm pretty sure that if someone is having trouble breathing, the prescribed course of treatment is not kneeling on their neck for nine minutes.

If it is, they didn't tell us about it in my most recent CPR course.


EDIT: Just to be clear, I think that if you accept the premise that he was having trouble breathing beforehand and he asked to lie on the ground, that actually makes things worse for Chauvin.

The point is that the main evidence for how much pressure Chauvin was applying to George Floyd's neck was the trouble George Floyd had in breathing. If he was having serious breathing problems before, it's not a reliable indicator of how much force was being applied.

There are professionals (stunt people, fight co-ordinators) who make a career out of making relatively safe actions appear highly dangerous or even lethal. The point is that how dangerous or painful a situation appears to be in the view of an observer is not the same thing as how dangerous or painful it is to the person experiencing it, and that can go in either direction.

If he was having serious problems before, then refusing aid and instead doing something that increased the problem is not particularly helpful to Chauvin's case.