Strategies for Countering Unproductive Student Attitudes and Behaviors

[Caracal]

I spoke via email with one of the psychologists on the faculty here. She thinks many of the 18-22 year old, white, suburban students who enroll here had greater problems with self-control and time management once classes moved online.

Well, since I as the professor had greater problems with self-control and time management, that's not surprising.

Ha, I was going to write the same thing. My theory about this is that students are people.

[Puget]

My theory about this is that students are people.

There's a tag line if ever I saw one!

I'm often discouraged by the us-vs.-them attitude some display here. It's as if folks forget that student are indeed people-- when they mess up, its generally because people mess up, not because they are out to get you.

I think it's no secret at this point from my posts that I'm in psychology and study mental health related topics.  Even in the best of times, traditional college-age students are in a period when they are at high risk for anxiety, depression and other mental health issues, and when their executive function is still developing so they don't always make the best decisions. They are also often living away from home for the first time, adjusting to increased independence and all sorts of new stressors and demands.

Now, multiply that by everything that's been happening. How is anyone surprised that students are struggling when many faculty are too? They don't always have the tools to cope  well-- they need scaffolding and support to get there. You don't necessarily need to be the one to provide that, but you can help connect them to the appropriate services on your campus that will. Study skills are certainly important (and I teach them, and the science behind why they work), but any attempt to get them to use particular study or note taking systems etc. is not going to work if their basic mental health needs are not being addressed first. 

[marshwiggle]

My theory about this is that students are people.

There's a tag line if ever I saw one!

I'm often discouraged by the us-vs.-them attitude some display here. It's as if folks forget that student are indeed people-- when they mess up, its generally because people mess up, not because they are out to get you.

I think it's no secret at this point from my posts that I'm in psychology and study mental health related topics.  Even in the best of times, traditional college-age students are in a period when they are at high risk for anxiety, depression and other mental health issues, and when their executive function is still developing so they don't always make the best decisions. They are also often living away from home for the first time, adjusting to increased independence and all sorts of new stressors and demands.

I always get frustrated when I hear this argument. I went to university at 16, in a different province, and did fine. There are lots of 12 year olds who have been well-raised who are very responsible, and lots of 30 year olds that are chaos incarnate. In my experience "development of executive function" is much less a predictive factor than upbringing.

[the_geneticist]

My theory about this is that students are people.

There's a tag line if ever I saw one!

I'm often discouraged by the us-vs.-them attitude some display here. It's as if folks forget that student are indeed people-- when they mess up, its generally because people mess up, not because they are out to get you.

I think it's no secret at this point from my posts that I'm in psychology and study mental health related topics.  Even in the best of times, traditional college-age students are in a period when they are at high risk for anxiety, depression and other mental health issues, and when their executive function is still developing so they don't always make the best decisions. They are also often living away from home for the first time, adjusting to increased independence and all sorts of new stressors and demands.

Now, multiply that by everything that's been happening. How is anyone surprised that students are struggling when many faculty are too? They don't always have the tools to cope  well-- they need scaffolding and support to get there. You don't necessarily need to be the one to provide that, but you can help connect them to the appropriate services on your campus that will. Study skills are certainly important (and I teach them, and the science behind why they work), but any attempt to get them to use particular study or note taking systems etc. is not going to work if their basic mental health needs are not being addressed first.

To me, that means that students in a crisis need to take a break from being students.  There's no point adding academic struggles on top of not being safe/functional/supported.  I can point students to counseling services, advisors, and support groups; be lenient with requests to be excused from assignments; contact advisors & the Dean of Students when I know a student is in a crisis; and tell students about the Pass/Fail and late Withdrawl options. 
That's the limit of what I can do.  My job is to design and teach labs.  No one will thank me if I burn myself out worrying for our students.  And sadly, no one will notice if I don't offer the above help.  But they will notice if I don't do my job.

[Caracal]

I always get frustrated when I hear this argument. I went to university at 16, in a different province, and did fine. There are lots of 12 year olds who have been well-raised who are very responsible, and lots of 30 year olds that are chaos incarnate. In my experience "development of executive function" is much less a predictive factor than upbringing.

I don't think geneticist is offering it as an argument for shielding students from the consequences of their choices, or for spending all your time counseling them. However, I think I'm a better teacher when I keep in mind that my students are people trying to navigate a particular stage of their lives (not always the same one) and might sometimes mess it up. Sometimes, I might be able to help them recover from those screw ups by being a bit flexible. Sometimes, I can't do much.

Also to reuse a phrase, your students aren't you. Living away from home with more responsibility and more time improved my work ethic, but that doesn't happen for every person at the same age. 

[Puget]

My theory about this is that students are people.

There's a tag line if ever I saw one!

I'm often discouraged by the us-vs.-them attitude some display here. It's as if folks forget that student are indeed people-- when they mess up, its generally because people mess up, not because they are out to get you.

I think it's no secret at this point from my posts that I'm in psychology and study mental health related topics.  Even in the best of times, traditional college-age students are in a period when they are at high risk for anxiety, depression and other mental health issues, and when their executive function is still developing so they don't always make the best decisions. They are also often living away from home for the first time, adjusting to increased independence and all sorts of new stressors and demands.

I always get frustrated when I hear this argument. I went to university at 16, in a different province, and did fine. There are lots of 12 year olds who have been well-raised who are very responsible, and lots of 30 year olds that are chaos incarnate. In my experience "development of executive function" is much less a predictive factor than upbringing.

That's what we call anacdata. I look at actual data for a living. Sure, some 16 year olds like you function like adults, and some adults function like 16 year olds. There are big individual differences in EF at every age (which are largely genetic, not due to "upbringing" or other environmental effects). That doesn't contradict the average age effects.

To me, that means that students in a crisis need to take a break from being students.  There's no point adding academic struggles on top of not being safe/functional/supported.  I can point students to counseling services, advisors, and support groups; be lenient with requests to be excused from assignments; contact advisors & the Dean of Students when I know a student is in a crisis; and tell students about the Pass/Fail and late Withdrawl options. 
That's the limit of what I can do.  My job is to design and teach labs.  No one will thank me if I burn myself out worrying for our students.  And sadly, no one will notice if I don't offer the above help.  But they will notice if I don't do my job.

I hear you, and you do indeed need to take care of your own mental health first.  You don't need to be the one to help, just be compassionate (which is not the same thing as becoming emotionally involved so you burn out), and refer to the appropriate places.

That said, I think the attitude that you can't or shouldn't  be a student and have mental health struggles at the same time is counterproductive and misinterprets how things like anxiety and depression work. Certainly, if a student is truly in crisis they may need to take time off, but generally it is much better for students to stay in college while getting the treatment they need. Forcing students out can often make things worse, not better-- they lose their social support network, their sense of purpose and self-esteem, etc. For most people, these are conditions that are ongoing struggles for long periods, often throughout their lives, but can be managed with good treatment and support.

Also, 25% of all college students experience at least one mental health disorder each year-- if you want to force them all out there would be significant problems with enrollments! This is the reality of our students (pretty much of humans in general)-- we can wish it was otherwise, but unless we think only the lucky marshwiggles of the world should get a college education, we need to take student mental health seriously.

[ciao_yall]

My theory about this is that students are people.

There's a tag line if ever I saw one!

I'm often discouraged by the us-vs.-them attitude some display here. It's as if folks forget that student are indeed people-- when they mess up, its generally because people mess up, not because they are out to get you.

I think it's no secret at this point from my posts that I'm in psychology and study mental health related topics.  Even in the best of times, traditional college-age students are in a period when they are at high risk for anxiety, depression and other mental health issues, and when their executive function is still developing so they don't always make the best decisions. They are also often living away from home for the first time, adjusting to increased independence and all sorts of new stressors and demands.

I always get frustrated when I hear this argument. I went to university at 16, in a different province, and did fine. There are lots of 12 year olds who have been well-raised who are very responsible, and lots of 30 year olds that are chaos incarnate. In my experience "development of executive function" is much less a predictive factor than upbringing.

That's what we call anacdata. I look at actual data for a living. Sure, some 16 year olds like you function like adults, and some adults function like 16 year olds. There are big individual differences in EF at every age (which are largely genetic, not due to "upbringing" or other environmental effects). That doesn't contradict the average age effects.

To me, that means that students in a crisis need to take a break from being students.  There's no point adding academic struggles on top of not being safe/functional/supported.  I can point students to counseling services, advisors, and support groups; be lenient with requests to be excused from assignments; contact advisors & the Dean of Students when I know a student is in a crisis; and tell students about the Pass/Fail and late Withdrawl options. 
That's the limit of what I can do.  My job is to design and teach labs.  No one will thank me if I burn myself out worrying for our students.  And sadly, no one will notice if I don't offer the above help.  But they will notice if I don't do my job.

I hear you, and you do indeed need to take care of your own mental health first.  You don't need to be the one to help, just be compassionate (which is not the same thing as becoming emotionally involved so you burn out), and refer to the appropriate places.

That said, I think the attitude that you can't or shouldn't  be a student and have mental health struggles at the same time is counterproductive and misinterprets how things like anxiety and depression work. Certainly, if a student is truly in crisis they may need to take time off, but generally it is much better for students to stay in college while getting the treatment they need. Forcing students out can often make things worse, not better-- they lose their social support network, their sense of purpose and self-esteem, etc. For most people, these are conditions that are ongoing struggles for long periods, often throughout their lives, but can be managed with good treatment and support.

Also, 25% of all college students experience at least one mental health disorder each year-- if you want to force them all out there would be significant problems with enrollments! This is the reality of our students (pretty much of humans in general)-- we can wish it was otherwise, but unless we think only the lucky marshwiggles of the world should get a college education, we need to take student mental health seriously.

This. I left a very abusive and toxic family situation and escaped to college. I didn't do so well in college but was still better off there than at home. I was able to get therapy, examine unhealthy patterns, and start the road to recovery.

I cringe when I think about students being forced to go back home. Maybe sometimes it's good for them, but doing not-so-well and still getting another year under your belt towards a college degree is also pretty good.

[the_geneticist]

This. I left a very abusive and toxic family situation and escaped to college. I didn't do so well in college but was still better off there than at home. I was able to get therapy, examine unhealthy patterns, and start the road to recovery.

I cringe when I think about students being forced to go back home. Maybe sometimes it's good for them, but doing not-so-well and still getting another year under your belt towards a college degree is also pretty good.

I fully agree that the default should be to offer support, not to force a student to leave college.  Our university even offers "short term" emergency on campus housing for students who are in an unsafe home environment. 

We've diverged a bit from the original topic.

One strategy that has worked well for me is to list ALL of the assignments, their point values, and due dates in the syllabus.  And a "tips for success" section with a list of strategies (get a day planner/calendar, write down dates for all exams, form a study group, etc.).  Struggling students sometimes don't even know what strategies successful students are using. 
The attitude "But I can't remember all of assignments!" is countered by "Exactly!  That's why we invented writing.  Write them down so you don't have to remember them."

[marshwiggle]

My theory about this is that students are people.

There's a tag line if ever I saw one!

I'm often discouraged by the us-vs.-them attitude some display here. It's as if folks forget that student are indeed people-- when they mess up, its generally because people mess up, not because they are out to get you.

I think it's no secret at this point from my posts that I'm in psychology and study mental health related topics.  Even in the best of times, traditional college-age students are in a period when they are at high risk for anxiety, depression and other mental health issues, and when their executive function is still developing so they don't always make the best decisions. They are also often living away from home for the first time, adjusting to increased independence and all sorts of new stressors and demands.

I always get frustrated when I hear this argument. I went to university at 16, in a different province, and did fine. There are lots of 12 year olds who have been well-raised who are very responsible, and lots of 30 year olds that are chaos incarnate. In my experience "development of executive function" is much less a predictive factor than upbringing.

That's what we call anacdata. I look at actual data for a living. Sure, some 16 year olds like you function like adults, and some adults function like 16 year olds. There are big individual differences in EF at every age (which are largely genetic, not due to "upbringing" or other environmental effects). That doesn't contradict the average age effects.

Honest question: How big is the standard deviation? You see stories of 7 year olds asking friends to donate to homeless shelters rather than giving them birthday presents, and you get 30 year olds who abuse substances,  can't keep a job, relationship, etc. In principle, the 7 year old decision could be a fluke, but generally those are the kids in high school raising money to build schools in developing countries, etc.  The variation in wise decision making seems to be orders of magnitude, which suggests a much bigger standard deviation than most phenomena. (My understanding is that the "Marshmallow priinciple" has been debunked lately, but I'm not up on the details.)

To me, that means that students in a crisis need to take a break from being students. There's no point adding academic struggles on top of not being safe/functional/supported.  I can point students to counseling services, advisors, and support groups; be lenient with requests to be excused from assignments; contact advisors & the Dean of Students when I know a student is in a crisis; and tell students about the Pass/Fail and late Withdrawl options. 
That's the limit of what I can do.  My job is to design and teach labs.  No one will thank me if I burn myself out worrying for our students.  And sadly, no one will notice if I don't offer the above help.  But they will notice if I don't do my job.

This is what I feel when a student informs me that a close family member has been diagnosed with cancer, for instance. Sometimes school is just not the most important priority in a person's life.

I hear you, and you do indeed need to take care of your own mental health first.  You don't need to be the one to help, just be compassionate (which is not the same thing as becoming emotionally involved so you burn out), and refer to the appropriate places.

I think in cases like that, there's not really much an instructor can do anyway. If there wasn't some sort of close relationship before, one can't really be manufactured in a moment of crisis. Any real support is going to come from long-standing relationships, or if need be, professional counselors.

That said, I think the attitude that you can't or shouldn't  be a student and have mental health struggles at the same time is counterproductive and misinterprets how things like anxiety and depression work. Certainly, if a student is truly in crisis they may need to take time off, but generally it is much better for students to stay in college while getting the treatment they need. Forcing students out can often make things worse, not better-- they lose their social support network, their sense of purpose and self-esteem, etc. For most people, these are conditions that are ongoing struggles for long periods, often throughout their lives, but can be managed with good treatment and support.

Also, 25% of all college students experience at least one mental health disorder each year-- if you want to force them all out there would be significant problems with enrollments! This is the reality of our students (pretty much of humans in general)-- we can wish it was otherwise, but unless we think only the lucky marshwiggles of the world should get a college education, we need to take student mental health seriously.

The difficulty with having someone with serious mental health challenges and staying in school is that accomodations for mental health are going to be like accomodations for any other condition; without official involvement of the special needs office, it's not really appropriate for an instructor to make unusual accomodations for any specific student.

[polly_mer]

I taught 7 classes in the Spring. My time per class is limited.

Why are you teaching 7 classes a term?  That's too much possibly even if it's all the same prep and you have that prep polished to a high shine.

[Caracal]

The difficulty with having someone with serious mental health challenges and staying in school is that accomodations for mental health are going to be like accomodations for any other condition; without official involvement of the special needs office, it's not really appropriate for an instructor to make unusual accomodations for any specific student.

That depends what we are talking about. There are some sorts of accommodations that I would never give without specific forms, such as extra time on tests or different test taking environments. I always do these things through the testing center anyway and the students are in charge of arranging it so my job is just to make sure they have the right exams at the right times. The other things in accommodations letters are never a concern for the kind of classes I teach.

The other kind of "accommodations" you might be referring to is totally different.  These are students who are dealing with some sort of issue during the semester that might effect their ability to meet deadlines and/or come to class regularly. This could be everything from serious illness, to pregnancy, to mental health stuff, to family issues. I often do get notes from the deans of students office about these students, but I don't need them. Those notes are never telling me to do anything in particular, just informing me of the student's situation. (The only time I invoke the need for these sorts of notes with students is if I don't trust them) I absolutely use my discretion in these sorts of cases and don't need official approval from anyone to do so. The basic principle I use is that
1. I have class and grading policies designed to get students to succeed in the class, but that in extraordinary circumstances rigid adherence to these policies can result in result in grades that actually don't represent the student's performance and
2. I'm not going to allow students to get grades that their performance doesn't warrant just because of the circumstance.

So suppose student is pregnant, comes to class regularly through most of the semester, ends up having pregnancy related issues that result in them missing a number of classes over the last month (and lets me know that is why they are missing classes), but still turns assignments in on time and does good work. At end of semester, student's grade is close to A/B border. If student hadn't missed a number of classes they would easily be getting an A. I'm almost certainly going to round this student's grade up to an A. They did the work to get an A, the only thing hurting them is missing classes, which they couldn't control.

Or, student has serious short term illness. Misses a bunch of classes and assignments, but does keep me in the loop on the situation. Does barely ok on exams. Asks early on if they can turn in assignments late and get credit. I'm almost certainly going to agree that this student can turn stuff in late that I wouldn't normally allow. If I can help the student get a C, pass the class and move on from a bad semester, I'm going to do that.

On other hand if student doesn't turn in anything, almost never comes to class, doesn't come to exams, and then tells me more than halfway through semester that they have serious depression, I probably can't help much and will usually encourage them to see about applying for a late drop. I sympathize, but there's a certain minimum qualification for passing a class

[mythbuster]

Caracal, why is depression, a clinical condition, different from pregnancy or a short term illness, also a clinical conditions? If you break it down to just- they were ill and so could not come to class all three should be in the same boat.
   I ask while I heartily sympathize. I have a student this summer who seems incapable of turning things in on time. She has recently revealed that she suffers from both a mental illness and is on the autism spectrum (what do we call that nowadays) and has several disability accommodations. However, our accommodation office passes the buck on extended deadlines to the faculty. So should she get extended deadlines? She clearly has "qualifying medical issues". I did not hear about this until I notified her about missing assignments. I get your annoyance with these after the fact excuses. This is a real issue in this particular course as we do lots of peer review. If you don't submit your paper on time, then you get no peer feedback. The deadline is not just to make my life easy as an instructor.

[Caracal]

Caracal, why is depression, a clinical condition, different from pregnancy or a short term illness, also a clinical conditions? If you break it down to just- they were ill and so could not come to class all three should be in the same boat.
   I ask while I heartily sympathize. I have a student this summer who seems incapable of turning things in on time. She has recently revealed that she suffers from both a mental illness and is on the autism spectrum (what do we call that nowadays) and has several disability accommodations. However, our accommodation office passes the buck on extended deadlines to the faculty. So should she get extended deadlines? She clearly has "qualifying medical issues". I did not hear about this until I notified her about missing assignments. I get your annoyance with these after the fact excuses. This is a real issue in this particular course as we do lots of peer review. If you don't submit your paper on time, then you get no peer feedback. The deadline is not just to make my life easy as an instructor.

Perhaps that example was confusing. I didn't intend to imply that I treat mental illnesses any differently than physical ones. I was just describing composites of actual situations I have dealt with. The reason I was saying I wouldn't be able to do much for the composite student with depression, is because they haven't done any of the work throughout the course. In the other cases, students were keeping in touch, at least participating minimally in the course, taking exams etc.

If a student had a physical disease and was just completely absent from the course for two month with no contact, I wouldn't be able to help them either. There's a minimum standard you have to meet to pass a course. In special circumstances I can be very flexible with deadlines, but I can't turn back time 2/3rds of the way through the semester.

Unfortunately, in my experience it is a lot more common for students dealing with severe mental health problems, especially depression, to just vanish. I don't blame them, the thing that is keeping them from turning stuff in and coming to class, is also keeping them from asking me for help and keeping in touch.

As for your student, if it was me, I would be flexible to the extent of accepting the late work, while also making it clear that if she can't get stuff in on time she isn't going to get feedback. That probably will result in her grades not being great, but if she's able to complete assignments I can't see the point in failing her.