How to Deal with Zealots Who Tell You that Your Way of Thinking is Wrong.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

How do you deal with these people (other than just avoiding them)? What do you do if they are family? :(

[Parasaurolophus]

Provided they really are wrong and it's not just me, I explain why I think they're wrong. I also try to let it go after a few rounds, and try again the next time it comes up. I think that the key is knowing when to stop.

[clean]

There are probably things that you can talk about.  Stick to those. 
No one will change their minds, though.  (Dale Carnegie said, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still".)  So, there isnt much you can do about them.  Staying away from the topics that are a problem is the best way to keep some peace. 

Good luck.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Provided they really are wrong and it's not just me, I explain why I think they're wrong. I also try to let it go after a few rounds, and try again the next time it comes up. I think that the key is knowing when to stop.

I have tried those tactics. This person doesn't want to listen and it's not really a good idea to cut this person out of my life. Today's latest Kool-aid-related conversation: 'Students are learning Marxism in colleges now.' I suppose I just need a place to vent (besides the venting thread) and who knows?- maybe there's a piece of advice that may help me save my sanity.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

There are probably things that you can talk about.  Stick to those. 
No one will change their minds, though.  (Dale Carnegie said, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still".)  So, there isnt much you can do about them.  Staying away from the topics that are a problem is the best way to keep some peace. 

Good luck.

Thanks Clean. Yes, I try very hard to reroute the conversations to more innocuous topics. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[marshwiggle]

Provided they really are wrong and it's not just me, I explain why I think they're wrong. I also try to let it go after a few rounds, and try again the next time it comes up. I think that the key is knowing when to stop.

I have tried those tactics. This person doesn't want to listen and it's not really a good idea to cut this person out of my life. Today's latest Kool-aid-related conversation: 'Students are learning Marxism in colleges now.' I suppose I just need a place to vent (besides the venting thread) and who knows?- maybe there's a piece of advice that may help me save my sanity.

While the quotation may be an overstatement, there's lots of evidence that the politics of faculty are farther left than a generaton ago, and some ideas which would have been considered controversial at best in a previous generation are now accepted as beyond question by many faculty.  So if the conversation is unavoidable, it might be worth inquiring about specific examples of what the speaker means. Sometimes what sounds pretty wild in the absract is actually much more reasonable when the focus is more specific.

[Parasaurolophus]

I have tried those tactics. This person doesn't want to listen and it's not really a good idea to cut this person out of my life. Today's latest Kool-aid-related conversation: 'Students are learning Marxism in colleges now.' I suppose I just need a place to vent (besides the venting thread) and who knows?- maybe there's a piece of advice that may help me save my sanity.

Just to be crystal clear in case there's any doubt: when I say 'learning to let it go', I mean the conversation, not the person!

So if the conversation is unavoidable, it might be worth inquiring about specific examples of what the speaker means. Sometimes what sounds pretty wild in the absract is actually much more reasonable when the focus is more specific.

I'm not often in agreement with marshwiggle, but I think this is right. Ask for details, and let them do the majority of the talking. Model Socrates and the Socratic method: let them get lost and incoherent, and come to terms with that incoherence on their own. Asking questions, even when they're annoying, is a lot less directly confrontational, and I expect the response will be more positive than it would be to a direct confrontation. It may not change their mind (at least not initially), but over time, it might help. At least that way you're letting them expose their ignorance to themselves and whoever else is around, rather than doing it yourself.

(That said, Socrates was huuuuuuuge troll and a total asshole, and who knows if he ended up convincing anyone of anything except that they didn't like him much. If you want to avoid being a Socrates-level asshole, you'll have to learn when to drop the subject!)

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Thanks everyone.

There are times, when I put the phone down and walk away. I have to- it's too emotionally intense to just listen, or try to have some semblance of a conversation. Today, I basically said, 'I don't want to talk about it. I have enough stress in my life.' only to be told that this person was trying to 'educate' me.

Hmmmm.....

Other times, I put the person on speaker and my SO listens. He is gobsmacked most of the time.

The main reason I posted this thread is just to put it out there. So, if anyone else has a zealot (religious, political, etc.) who is driving you mad, feel free to post and lighten your load. Maybe we can help each other.

[mamselle]

My sister will answer a fairly innocuous, straightforward question with three paragraphs of opinionated, often fairly poisonous, text.

I pick the one simplest, most agreeable thing I can find (or the closest thing to it) and reply to that in a bit of detail, then talk about something I've been doing that interests me. Then I sign off (on an email; I avoid telephoning since it's harder to control those conversations, and I just never answer her calls, let it go to voice mail and then reply with an email whenever possible.

Since we have only started communicating again since my mom died two years ago, and she's always been somewhat like this, I figure the fact that we are maintaining some kind of connection is probably to the good.

My brother is a bit more anodyne, and very terse, so it's easier to reply cordially and let that exchange go as well.

Otherwise, no other zealot has any hold on my time or attention and I don't intend to give it to them. I either walk away, don't reply to an email, or ignore a call.

I don't find the game of "cherry-pick the targets to which you can give your snarky replies" fun, so I just avoid it.

Same here.

M.

[Wahoo Redux]

Provided they really are wrong and it's not just me, I explain why I think they're wrong. I also try to let it go after a few rounds, and try again the next time it comes up. I think that the key is knowing when to stop.

I have tried those tactics. This person doesn't want to listen and it's not really a good idea to cut this person out of my life. Today's latest Kool-aid-related conversation: 'Students are learning Marxism in colleges now.' I suppose I just need a place to vent (besides the venting thread) and who knows?- maybe there's a piece of advice that may help me save my sanity.

You've got someone who is clinging to a belief because of some personal reason----a great many zealots need to feel that "you" or "they" or "those people" are doing something terribly wrong so that the zealot will feel justified in hu's antagonism.  Cultural insecurity?  Defensiveness about educational and/or socioeconomic status?  Living in a FOX news bubble?  Who cares? 

While faculty are generally left-leaning, we have been a favorite target of the conservative zealots since Timothy Leary splattered his brains all over the media and Rush Limpbutt reinforced the stereotype.

Online and off I always ask, "Oh really?  Who?"  I stick with it.  "No really, I want to know. Who is teaching Marxism?  Really, what classes?  The dean needs to know about this!  I'd sure like to give them a piece of my mind!"  Have fun with it.  That's really the best way to shut down the zealot.  "Geeze!  How terrible!  Marxism really needs to be controlled!  Putin would be very upset!"

I grew up in a loving, fairly hardcore Republican family, and it took me into adulthood to realize that they were not going to change (although actually they did when Dubya starting making a mess) but it really didn't matter what they thought about what I did or believed.  We got along so much better when I leaned to nod and grunt and go on about my business when "one of those" topics came up, even better when I learned to chuckle.  The chuckle is deadly if used correctly.

[Parasaurolophus]

Oh! That reminds me: sometimes, you can just play the Zizek game.

[mahagonny]

Argue all you want. Just don't use your real name.

[spork]

Provided they really are wrong and it's not just me, I explain why I think they're wrong. I also try to let it go after a few rounds, and try again the next time it comes up. I think that the key is knowing when to stop.

I have tried those tactics. This person doesn't want to listen and it's not really a good idea to cut this person out of my life. Today's latest Kool-aid-related conversation: 'Students are learning Marxism in colleges now.' I suppose I just need a place to vent (besides the venting thread) and who knows?- maybe there's a piece of advice that may help me save my sanity.

"Yes, Marx's Das Kapital has been taught at universities around the world since its publication in the late 1800s. Marx was probably the first person to propose technological innovation as a main cause of economic change, a topic for which Robert Solow won the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 1987. By the way, did you know that your tax dollars subsidize professional sports teams owned by billionaires, by contributing to intercollegiate football and basketball, which are farm leagues for the NFL and NBA?"

[financeguy]

The assumption that Marxist ideology is taught is neither wrong nor even an exaggeration, which is surprising because economics as a field has one of the lowest percentages of left identifying faculty. Though not as absolutely uniform as sociology, they are still in the the majority. Many programs (Duke, for example) are specifically intended for this area.

But this isn't really your question... I've gotten a couple of these people recently. I've found that using the word "lecture" is very helpful since no one will self identify as one who does it. Such as:

"I'm not open to a lecture on this issue."
"When x has his house in order on y, I'll allow myself to be lectured on ABC."
"I didn't intend to receive a lecture on x."

It doesn't really matter how it's phrased as long as that one word is included. The person will either shut up or pivot to defend themselves against engaging in that activity. This is only effective if that actually is what someone is doing which is generally the case if they have gone on for an extensive period of time, hijacked on an unrelated issue or interrupted someone else.

[marshwiggle]

Just out of curiosity; how many people, in their extended circles, have zealots from both ends of the political spectrum? I do, and I would imagine a lot of people do.