Which do you think would be better for students: hybrid (ie, flipped) or HyFlex?

[marshwiggle]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

Yeah, I can't imagine trying to manage the students who aren't there in real time. Why not just have the half of the class who isn't there watch the recording and then post on a discussion board, or just take a short quiz on the lecture? It isn't ideal, but what is right now.

In addition to everything else, this means that you potentially need different grading schemes for each group (if you're going with some sort of "A on Mondays, B on Wednesdays" scenario), or you need to have some sort of "grade conversion" between in-person activities and online activities if students can opt in and out at will.

It hurts my head to even think about.

[Caracal]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

Yeah, I can't imagine trying to manage the students who aren't there in real time. Why not just have the half of the class who isn't there watch the recording and then post on a discussion board, or just take a short quiz on the lecture? It isn't ideal, but what is right now.

In addition to everything else, this means that you potentially need different grading schemes for each group (if you're going with some sort of "A on Mondays, B on Wednesdays" scenario), or you need to have some sort of "grade conversion" between in-person activities and online activities if students can opt in and out at will.

It hurts my head to even think about.

Oh I don't think it could work if students could just opt in and out. Obviously, flexible attendance policies are going to be needed, but it doesn't make sense to say that students just get to decide each day if they'd like to come to class or not. And why would you need different grading schemes? One group of students is there on Monday, while the other group just needs to watch the lecture, and then it is reversed on Wednesday.

[marshwiggle]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

Yeah, I can't imagine trying to manage the students who aren't there in real time. Why not just have the half of the class who isn't there watch the recording and then post on a discussion board, or just take a short quiz on the lecture? It isn't ideal, but what is right now.

In addition to everything else, this means that you potentially need different grading schemes for each group (if you're going with some sort of "A on Mondays, B on Wednesdays" scenario), or you need to have some sort of "grade conversion" between in-person activities and online activities if students can opt in and out at will.

It hurts my head to even think about.

Oh I don't think it could work if students could just opt in and out. Obviously, flexible attendance policies are going to be needed, but it doesn't make sense to say that students just get to decide each day if they'd like to come to class or not. And why would you need different grading schemes? One group of students is there on Monday, while the other group just needs to watch the lecture, and then it is reversed on Wednesday.

What do you do about quizzes, tests, etc.? Do you give them in-person as well as online on the same day, and assume they're equivalent? Or do you give the same test to each group when they're in-person, so Wednesday people do it two days later?

Similarly, are assignments or papers going to be handed in in-person or electronically? Are the deadlines the same?

There are a whole host of issues that come with this kind of arrangement that all revolve around the question of what is "the same". And if in-person and online are sufficiently the same that this isn't a problem, then why go through all of the hoops to keep the in-person version under the circumstances?

[Caracal]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

Yeah, I can't imagine trying to manage the students who aren't there in real time. Why not just have the half of the class who isn't there watch the recording and then post on a discussion board, or just take a short quiz on the lecture? It isn't ideal, but what is right now.

In addition to everything else, this means that you potentially need different grading schemes for each group (if you're going with some sort of "A on Mondays, B on Wednesdays" scenario), or you need to have some sort of "grade conversion" between in-person activities and online activities if students can opt in and out at will.

It hurts my head to even think about.

Oh I don't think it could work if students could just opt in and out. Obviously, flexible attendance policies are going to be needed, but it doesn't make sense to say that students just get to decide each day if they'd like to come to class or not. And why would you need different grading schemes? One group of students is there on Monday, while the other group just needs to watch the lecture, and then it is reversed on Wednesday.

What do you do about quizzes, tests, etc.? Do you give them in-person as well as online on the same day, and assume they're equivalent? Or do you give the same test to each group when they're in-person, so Wednesday people do it two days later?

Similarly, are assignments or papers going to be handed in in-person or electronically? Are the deadlines the same?

There are a whole host of issues that come with this kind of arrangement that all revolve around the question of what is "the same". And if in-person and online are sufficiently the same that this isn't a problem, then why go through all of the hoops to keep the in-person version under the circumstances?

I always have students turn in assignments electronically, so that isn't an issue. Deadlines would be the same. For exams, all students would take in the same format. I haven't decided whether I want to give in person exams two days apart (I'd have to have different questions) or just do take home online exams.

Of course they aren't the same. I think there's a lot of value in an in person class. The way I conduct my classes, discussion and interaction is really key. Ideally, students would be in class for that every day, but given the circumstances, that isn't workable, so I'd prefer that the students get some of that instead of none of it.

[tiva]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

We don't get that choice. HyFlex or Hybrid: those are the choices.

[the_geneticist]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

We don't get that choice. HyFlex or Hybrid: those are the choices.

Unless they give you a great TA or a second instructor, then I'd go hybrid.

[Aster]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

We don't get that choice. HyFlex or Hybrid: those are the choices.

Plan for remote anyway. Your university leadership is stupid if they're not making contingency plans that include full remote instruction. Or they're planning for it, but deliberately keeping the faculty in the dark. This way, it forces all of you to think that you have no choice.

[Caracal]

My vote is for entirely online.  The logistics nightmare of keeping track of participation when students can either discuss in person OR online is reason enough to not do the so-called "HyFlex".  The folks who champion HyFlex forget to note the very critical detail that you need TWO INSTRUCTORS in the room (or one instructor and one very excellent TA), one for the students in the physical classroom and another for managing the students who are online.  Add in the technology issues, sound issues, & video issues and you'll waste a lot of class time trying to give the online students access to the class.

We don't get that choice. HyFlex or Hybrid: those are the choices.

Plan for remote anyway. Your university leadership is stupid if they're not making contingency plans that include full remote instruction. Or they're planning for it, but deliberately keeping the faculty in the dark. This way, it forces all of you to think that you have no choice.

I'm thinking more in terms of a plan for hybrid classes which would could be taken remotely without a huge amount of extra work.

[Cheerful]

We don't get that choice. HyFlex or Hybrid: those are the choices.

Plan for remote anyway. Your university leadership is stupid if they're not making contingency plans that include full remote instruction. Or they're planning for it, but deliberately keeping the faculty in the dark. This way, it forces all of you to think that you have no choice.

+1 
This admin strategy also helps with student recruitment and retention so students don't go elsewhere out of anger about online in the fall.  Online in the fall remains a possibility everywhere and was declared by Cal State back in May.  Good luck.

[aside]

Yes, the messaging at places "committed" to in-person classes in the fall smacks of bait and switch.

[apl68]

Yes, the messaging at places "committed" to in-person classes in the fall smacks of bait and switch.

I'd like to think that the plan is not to bait and switch.  But if many schools end up suddenly switching to online in the fall, it's going to be functionally the same.  And the students are certainly going to feel baited-and-switched.

[downer]

The community college I teach at has still not announced any fall plans (though the dept chair thinks that things will be mostly online). I wonder whether many CCs don't have the same worries about trying to attract students, and their worries may indeed about having too many students given the massive unemployment numbers. If so, then they don't need to try to lure students in with promises of face-to-face classes.

[ciao_yall]

The community college I teach at has still not announced any fall plans (though the dept chair thinks that things will be mostly online). I wonder whether many CCs don't have the same worries about trying to attract students, and their worries may indeed about having too many students given the massive unemployment numbers. If so, then they don't need to try to lure students in with promises of face-to-face classes.

Yes and no.

Many students take classes because they want to meet new people and enjoy engaging with other students. If they don't believe they are learning anything, or don't perceive time value in their online classes, or are concerned about transfer, they will probably just take a gap year.

[downer]

The community college I teach at has still not announced any fall plans (though the dept chair thinks that things will be mostly online). I wonder whether many CCs don't have the same worries about trying to attract students, and their worries may indeed about having too many students given the massive unemployment numbers. If so, then they don't need to try to lure students in with promises of face-to-face classes.

Yes and no.

Many students take classes because they want to meet new people and enjoy engaging with other students. If they don't believe they are learning anything, or don't perceive time value in their online classes, or are concerned about transfer, they will probably just take a gap year.

That sounds plausible. But then that could be welcome at least for CCs that are worried about becoming overloaded with students.

Didn't most CCs get a lot of new students in 2008/2009 during the recession and class sizes went up considerably? It was a problem for the CCs then. (But my memory of the details is hazy.)

[Caracal]

Yes, the messaging at places "committed" to in-person classes in the fall smacks of bait and switch.

I'd like to think that the plan is not to bait and switch.  But if many schools end up suddenly switching to online in the fall, it's going to be functionally the same.  And the students are certainly going to feel baited-and-switched.

I mean the simple fact is that nobody knows what the situation is going to be in the fall. You can't plan for online and then switch to face to face. Colleges aren't designed to be totally online and the quality and level of instruction just isn't going to be the same. Of course enrollment comes into the desire to announce you're planning to be in person, but I don't really think it is some clever bait and switch plan. The situation presents a lot of very difficult choices that have to be made in the face of incomplete information.