Creepy silence

[the_geneticist]

I'm OK with allowing students to backtrack because that allows them to skip a question and come back to it.  I think the tiny increased risk of cheating is worth the decrease in anxiety.

[clean]

I think the tiny increased risk of cheating is worth the decrease in anxiety.

I dont allow them to go back Unless the class is recorded. Otherwise, I think that the risk of cheating is not 'tiny'.  If they are alone and not recorded, then they take a picture of the question to their collaborators and someone answers.  Also the collaborators may well be set to take the test later.  So the cheating is not just for one, but for a whole group. 

IF the exam is recorded (taped) then there is a lot less risk as 'the fear of getting caught' decreases their willingness to take the risk of getting caught cheating.

[Baldwinschild]

"Dear Student, I do not allow going back to look at previous answers because in an online setting, this would allow students to cheat more easily. For instance, they could be sending each other text messages with the correct answers, and then other students could go back and plug the correct answers into previous questions. And if students did that, I would fail them for cheating. That may yet happen. So I want to prevent students from having even the temptation to commit such an egregious violation of university standards and cheat. Yours sincerely," etc.

And then I would submit their names to the Student Conduct office, and get ready to fail them, after due process.

Not kidding about any of this.  There's absolutely no need to beat around the bush about taking action to prevent cheating, or about the penalties if they cheat anyway.

This.  This.  This is what I've been struggling with.  I swear, I want to be professional and send the professional email, but I really want to say all of this.  They need to hear this.  And, darn it, I need to say it.  My whole being wants to say it, Lololololol.

[Baldwinschild]

I'm OK with allowing students to backtrack because that allows them to skip a question and come back to it.  I think the tiny increased risk of cheating is worth the decrease in anxiety.

Just for context, she and some other students have actually been sharing information during the online quizzes.  Their anxiety is coming from not studying and not having enough time to cheat. 

The problem with plagiarism of this sort, in my experience, is that it causes other problems.  They cheated on the quizzes, and then They got angry because their answers were wrong.  They get angry if one cheater doesn't get marked off.  They get angry because they don't have time to cheat, so send me weird emails complaining about things that don't matter.  It just spirals out of control. 

They don't realize that they cannot cheat on these quizzes and do well.  But they want the right to keep on cheating.  They know that I know they've been sharing answers, but I've not said anything to them, so now the guilt and paranoia has kicked in, and they can't think straight.  Chaos. 

These exams are ridiculously easy.  But it isn't about that anymore.  It's all of the above.  So, if I remove the time restrictions and enable the paging-back, they'll just find something else. 

And they've not even seen their grades yet.  So part of this whining is meant to manage the grade in advance. 

Honestly, at this point, I'm trying to keep them from plagiarizing because they just can't help themselves, and I don't want to have to drop the hammer on all of them. 

[mamselle]

Who's the teacher?

Why not drop the hammer?

Are you now so far under their control you're afraid of them?

You can't have it both ways, you know.

Forum mantra repetition no. I-don't-know-how-many: "You can't control others. You can't control situations. You can only control yourself, how you respond to those others, and how you act in those situations."

You can't make them like you. You can only report them.

And they may not like it but you have your job to do.

Use some combination of Hegemony's text and arcturus' suggestions, since those seemed to resonate so closely for you, be calm and steady and kind, but tell them.

You have to speak prophetic truth to those who know the truth, but are lying to themselves about it, when that's a part of your job

This shouldn't shock them...they already know they're wrong. You're just doing them the kindness of clarifying reality for them.

Because, hey, we all get mixed up about reality, right?

M.

[Baldwinschild]

I haven't yet dealt with this in an online setting, so it's not perhaps as useful, but in terms of student learning in a fairly rigorous art history course f2f, I've always allowed open book/open note tests (as we were allowed in all the art history courses I ever took, grad or undergrad).

Assimilation of the material and application of theoretical ideas (color schemes, spatial illusions, design and composition structures) to actual objects (whether covered in class or not) is such a complex process that if they can achieve it, with or without additional aids, they will have learned what the class is set up to teach: "How to see what you're looking at, and how to look at what you see."

Standard acquisition of images by recognition is c. 100 objects per semester: they need that many to have a good base for comparanda and trend-spotting. I give out a table with the "5-point IDs" (name, artist, date, place, movement/era/style of work) and they can use that, too, since if they mis-identify the work and then copy all the wrong info down, then they've missed the original point--to have an internal visual library of images--they've clearly gotten it wrong, and there are usually no arguments.

I, too, had a case of plagiarism right before my eyes in-class...there were 2 students who'd been studying together, and one had forgotten her book.

I loaned her mine, and started circulating in the room.

While I was passing their desks, the weaker one wrote a ? beside a picture and passed it to the stronger one, who wrote the answer down and returned the book....my book.

I asked them both to stop writing, take their tests outside, and sit in the hall; we met as soon as the rest of the class had finished the test.

The stronger student accepted her failing grade, said she understood the seriousness of her actions, and that they'd studied so much together, she just forgot where she was and gave the answer without thinking. She still passed the class with a C, since the failed test offset a string of As and it seemed she had learned her lesson.

The other student fought me, appealed, and even after a meeting with the chair and myself (in which my book was the primary evidence) was unrepentant.

As we got up to leave, she said plaintively, "But can't I still get an "A"?"

As Pry would have said, she not only flunked the class, she flunked cheating...

M.

Wow.  This is sobering really.  If a student would fight you on a case like this . . . .  Though the "flunking cheating" part is hilarious. 
Art history seems similar to my discipline.  Every now I then, I get an art history grad or senior in one of my courses.  I love them.  The students I've had are theoretically inclined, rigorous, and critical thinkers.  They work hard, and they write well. 
I think my approach is similar to yours:  I believe in the "see it three times" principle.  They need to see concepts and theoretical models at least three times to grasp them.  I give them the same concepts and models repeatedly in different contexts, and I try to make the assignments and quizzes open enough for them to stumble their way through an explanation—with notes.  My discipline and field are theory -heavy, so using the book during an examine would slow them down; they'd get stuck trying to reread and make sense of complex ideas.  So, I encourage them to make notes during the initial readings and class discussions and lectures and use those notes to help them during exams.  The exams just reinforce what they are learning. 

I think the problem with this approach (translating it to online) is that it requires students to trust that I will be fair in the grading and that the process will eventually lead them to a place where they know more- they spend so much time "wallowing in complexity," as we say.  I have to be transparent and honest and respectful to them in class from day one to earn their trust.

In online courses, there is no way for me to earn their trust early on.  I think they come to online courses already pretty wound up.  Everything seems so hard and so complicated to them, no matter how what I do.  I told them they could use their texts, but they see this as a punishment and unnecessary complication.  I think it's the online format.  It scares them.  And I can't do anything to calm them down.  Classroom discussion gives me the opportunity to earn their trust by doing small things such as looking at them when they are talking, helping them articulate a question, and nodding reassuringly when they stumble through explanations.  It seems as if the cheating online comes, in part, from an irrational fear of the online format.

I'm rambling, sorry.  Your response just made me think about why it is so difficult to do humanities online.  Thank you. 

[Baldwinschild]

Who's the teacher?

Why not drop the hammer?

Are you now so far under their control you're afraid of them?

You can't have it both ways, you know.

Forum mantra repetition no. I-don't-know-how-many: "You can't control others. You can't control situations. You can only control yourself, how you respond to those others, and how you act in those situations."

You can't make them like you. You can only report them.

And they may not like it but you have your job to do.

Use some combination of Hegemony's text and arcturus' suggestions, since those seemed to resonate so closely for you, be calm and steady and kind, but tell them.

You have to speak prophetic truth to those who know the truth, but are lying to themselves about it, when that's a part of your job

This shouldn't shock them...they already know they're wrong. You're just doing them the kindness of clarifying reality for them.

Because, hey, we all get mixed up about reality, right?

M.

Yes, I am afraid of them.  I was afraid to send the email last night.  Okay, so now that I've said that, I need to snap out of it and do my job.  Thank you for reminding me of these things.  Everything you said is right.  Thank you. 

[mamselle]

Somewhere in my Forum job description is "administer ice-cold water when needed...over the head if necessary..."

No, not really...you've go this.

Go for it.

M.

[Hegemony]

I don't get why the "Lololololol." I am perfectly forthright with my students when they ask why X or Y is not allowed — I say because it would open the door to cheating. It's not like it's news to them that students may try to cheat and professors seek to prevent it. It's not as if it would put the idea in their formerly innocent minds.  I was quite serious that I would say this, and that I have said similar things. What's preventing you?  Why would you ever try to conceal the idea that you are trying to prevent cheating?

"Dear Student, I do not allow going back to look at previous answers because in an online setting, this would allow students to cheat more easily. For instance, they could be sending each other text messages with the correct answers, and then other students could go back and plug the correct answers into previous questions. And if students did that, I would fail them for cheating. That may yet happen. So I want to prevent students from having even the temptation to commit such an egregious violation of university standards and cheat. Yours sincerely," etc.

And then I would submit their names to the Student Conduct office, and get ready to fail them, after due process.

Not kidding about any of this.  There's absolutely no need to beat around the bush about taking action to prevent cheating, or about the penalties if they cheat anyway.

This.  This.  This is what I've been struggling with.  I swear, I want to be professional and send the professional email, but I really want to say all of this.  They need to hear this.  And, darn it, I need to say it.  My whole being wants to say it, Lololololol.

[Baldwinschild]

I don't get why the "Lololololol." I am perfectly forthright with my students when they ask why X or Y is not allowed — I say because it would open the door to cheating. It's not like it's news to them that students may try to cheat and professors seek to prevent it. It's not as if it would put the idea in their formerly innocent minds.  I was quite serious that I would say this, and that I have said similar things. What's preventing you?  Why would you ever try to conceal the idea that you are trying to prevent cheating?

"Dear Student, I do not allow going back to look at previous answers because in an online setting, this would allow students to cheat more easily. For instance, they could be sending each other text messages with the correct answers, and then other students could go back and plug the correct answers into previous questions. And if students did that, I would fail them for cheating. That may yet happen. So I want to prevent students from having even the temptation to commit such an egregious violation of university standards and cheat. Yours sincerely," etc.

And then I would submit their names to the Student Conduct office, and get ready to fail them, after due process.

Not kidding about any of this.  There's absolutely no need to beat around the bush about taking action to prevent cheating, or about the penalties if they cheat anyway.

This.  This.  This is what I've been struggling with.  I swear, I want to be professional and send the professional email, but I really want to say all of this.  They need to hear this.  And, darn it, I need to say it.  My whole being wants to say it, Lololololol.

I don't have a defense here.  You and Mamselle are right.  And you are right—it isn't funny.  I know what they are doing, but I'm not doing anything about it (I failed a few papers).   And I still haven't sent that darn email.  I rewrote it and left it in "draft."   I'm just dreading the confrontation/ meltdown that I know is coming.  I usually confront these issues directly.  But I think they've been chipping away me since the beginning of the semester, and now I am feeling a bit worn down.  My hope was that they'd realize they can pass the exam and quizzes, get over their irrational fears, and just get on with things.  But it was never about those issues in the first place.  I knew that deep inside, and I knew it would come to this. 
Thank you.  I'll send the email before I go to bed.  No one should have to remind me to do my job, but I am truly grateful to you and mamselle for taking the time to do it anyway. 
I was just having a momentary lapse of intestinal fortitude. 

[mamselle]

Let us know what happens.

M.

[Hegemony]

Why do you think there will be a confrontation meltdown?  My students never react badly to being told that certain things are to prevent cheating. They basically say "Oh yeah, that makes sense."  They certainly would never say "We insist that you make cheating possible!" I think when you send the email, you're likely to hear no response at all, which will just be the students saying to themselves, "Oh yeah, that makes sense." There will be no pushback or ill will. Take it from someone who's done this many times.

[marshwiggle]

Why do you think there will be a confrontation meltdown?  My students never react badly to being told that certain things are to prevent cheating. They basically say "Oh yeah, that makes sense."  They certainly would never say "We insist that you make cheating possible!" I think when you send the email, you're likely to hear no response at all, which will just be the students saying to themselves, "Oh yeah, that makes sense." There will be no pushback or ill will. Take it from someone who's done this many times.

Agreed. Saying that "some people may cheat this way" is vastly different than accusing them of doing it, even if they have been. Cheaters generally assume they're way too clever for profs to suspect them. (Kruger-Dunning effect)

[polly_mer]

The response will depend on local expectations.  I was surprised about how things that worked at one institution didn't work at all at other institutions, even with similar student demographics.

I've taught majors classes in chemistry, physics, and engineering at the same institution and those groups responded differently to the same techniques.

I've used open everything with a long test window for application questions unique to each person (e.g., everyone gets a question that tests the same material, but has different numbers and possibly different words in a Mad Libs template).  Students who wanted to learn rise to the occasion.  Students who were checking a box became very angry about how hard the course is, even when the logic of allowing collaboration was explained.

As a different example, I once got to explain to the dean that students were complaining about an exam being too hard that was open book, open note and the questions were directly from the homework (graded and returned to count as part of notes) and the quiz at the end of the chapter with the answers below it.

It's hard to help students who really don't want to participate in their own education.

[Aster]

Summer students are so very, um... interesting.

Many are taking a summer class because they flunked it in an earlier term. These redo students tend to not do very well. Most of the ones that will pass the course, will pass just barely.

Many are taking a summer class because "I need it for my degree but it's stupid so this is the fastest way to pound it out and get it over with". These "pound it out" students tend to not do very well. They're in a hurry. They resent that they need this class for their degree. They don't want to be in this class and they often let you and everyone else know it.

Many are taking a summer class because they have been told that summer classes are easier than regular term classes. These students tend to lack motivation.

Many are taking a summer class because they forgot something in their degree plan and this is their last chance if they want to graduate on time. These students tend to *really* lack motivation. They already have a foot out the door.

Many are taking a summer class because they're top notch high school students who want to start early. This group is wonderful. Most of these "proto-freshmen" are the best academic performers.

So look on the bright side. Summer school is halfway over! Regular term classes are just two months away!