Looking for a reading re what university is about, for first-year discussion

[skedastic]

I've been teaching a Year 1 course for a while now.  In the first seminar (discussion section) I try to provoke a discussion re what university is all about -- how it is different from school, how to take control of your own education, what the core goals are (hint: not only to get a better job), etc. 

In the past I've used a reading from Roger Scruton ("The end of the university") as prep for them.  I've grown increasingly unhappy with it, and now he has completely disgraced himself -- so I need something new. 

I'd be grateful for suggestions.  Again the idea is to get them to reflect on what the big picture is -- how to think about what they're doing, what their goals might be, so that it's not just a matter of doing what the syllabus tells them to do.

[polly_mer]

You are starting from a hard spot if you insist that the primary goal of college is something other than to get a better job and you're teaching at a non-elite place.

Accepting that many to most of your students are in college to get a better job and then focusing on how merely going through the motions instead of actually learning will not get them that good job may be a more effective path.

[marshwiggle]

In the past I've used a reading from Roger Scruton ("The end of the university") as prep for them.  I've grown increasingly unhappy with it, and now he has completely disgraced himself -- so I need something new. 

This sounds like your own idea of what university is for have changed (since the text presumably hasn't). If so, how have your views changed and why?

[fishbrains]

I use videos and such to review the growth mindset and self-regulated learning ideas their gym coaches and band directors rambled on about when they weren't listening in high school. Then we work with the idea that harnessing these skills translates into people who are successful in different kinds of personal and professional relationships when they are able to 1) show up, 2) do the work as expected in a timely manner, 3) communicate (especially to keep small problems small), 4) not be an a$$hole, 5) demonstrate ethical judgement, and 6) play well with others.
 
It's fun to start by having them describe an ex from a failed relationship and consider which of these skills were problem areas—as long as the ex isn't in the room. Then I have them move to a school example. Then I have them move to an employment example (either as an employee or customer). Then they write a few paragraphs on what they are personally good at and what they need to work on in terms of these skills.

I sometimes go back to my syllabus and show them that 95% of the policies center around these life skills--that the syllabus is just a reformatting of these basic ideas.

[Puget]

I use videos and such to review the growth mindset

Careful with that-- even when growth mindset interventions "work", the effects are modest at best. This provides a pretty good summery:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debate-arises-over-teaching-growth-mindsets-to-motivate-students/

Much better to teach concrete evidence-based study skills. This is a nice new review paper on how to do that:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691620920723
(Sorry, paywalled journal article, but you likely can access through your library),

[Parasaurolophus]

All I can think of is Bertrand Russell's On Education. You could easily assign some excerpts.


On Scruton: FWIW, he's dead now. He was a great stylist, and he often picked up on really interesting problems and ideas, but his scholarship often left something to be desired (it was often sloppy--largely, I think, as a result of his prejudices [and I don't just mean his moral failings]). I had lunch with him five or six years ago or so when he came to give a talk at my PhD program, and while he was a perfectly pleasant and knowledgeable conversationalist, he was surrounded by a small travelling posse whose sole purpose seemed to be to plump him up. It was weird.

[mamselle]

All I can think of is Bertrand Russell's On Education. You could easily assign some excerpts.


On Scruton: FWIW, he's dead now. He was a great stylist, and he often picked up on really interesting problems and ideas, but his scholarship often left something to be desired (it was often sloppy--largely, I think, as a result of his prejudices [and I don't just mean his moral failings]). I had lunch with him five or six years ago or so when he came to give a talk at my PhD program, and while he was a perfectly pleasant and knowledgeable conversationalist, he was surrounded by a small travelling posse whose sole purpose seemed to be to plump him up. It was weird.

I was going to speak to him once about doing an independent study on musicology. I always made it a habit to read something written by a prof I planned to meet with.

His stuff was impenetrable, and he'd been rude on the phone besides, so I canceled the interview.

=_=_=_

On the education side, I think there's something either by or about Abelard visiting the rooms of a lecturer in Paris and meeting the other scholars who did likewise. As an insight to the formative period of schools like the Sorbonne or the (later) College de Louis le Grand, that might offer a starting point.

I'll look up the reference if it's of interest.

M.

[skedastic]

You are starting from a hard spot if you insist that the primary goal of college is something other than to get a better job and you're teaching at a non-elite place.

Accepting that many to most of your students are in college to get a better job and then focusing on how merely going through the motions instead of actually learning will not get them that good job may be a more effective path.

This response puzzles me.  What I said was that the core goals are "not only to get a better job".  I have no problem with people's desire to get a better job via a university degree.  I don't need to help them understand this goal -- they already know it.  What I want is to help them see other things as well. 

Thanks to Parasaurolophus for the Bertrand Russell suggestion. 

[skedastic]

This might meet the need:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-day-the-purpose-of-college-changed/

[polly_mer]

You are starting from a hard spot if you insist that the primary goal of college is something other than to get a better job and you're teaching at a non-elite place.

Accepting that many to most of your students are in college to get a better job and then focusing on how merely going through the motions instead of actually learning will not get them that good job may be a more effective path.

This response puzzles me.  What I said was that the core goals are "not only to get a better job".  I have no problem with people's desire to get a better job via a university degree.  I don't need to help them understand this goal -- they already know it.  What I want is to help them see other things as well. 

You do need to help them understand what actions in college will get them that job.  It's not the mere fact of having a college degree and it's absolutely not being able to repeat some mantra about how the liberal arts contribute to critical thinking and communication skills.

The theory of college is worthless to those who are in college to get a good job.  Much more useful:

* personal introspection on what one wants to do all day after graduation and exploring the options through job shadowing and internships.

* personal introspection on what one's own actions indicate on actual priorities versus voiced priorities.  For example, someone who is spending a lot of time organizing the club activities while neglecting classes is possibly on the wrong major and should look for a path that emphasizes organizing.  Someone who chooses project work over problem sets may be at the wrong school and perhaps should be looking at programs more aligned with their interests.

* doing basic research on how various personal skills translate to the workplace.  Many people are better off focusing on building a professional network and a wider personal network that has contacts of contacts who can recommend for non-advertised opportunities than getting the highest grades in unrelated courses.

* doing basic research on jobs available where one wants to live.  The student who wants to go back to the farm community might be better off interacting with the university extension program to learn about the singleton jobs that exist in nearly every rural county.

[writingprof]

OP, don't listen to the naysayers.  If a student is only interested in a job, not an education, he should at least be made to listen to arguments to the contrary. 

I like Martha Nussbaum's Not for Profit.  However, you might check to make sure she hasn't been cancelled.  Don't want to get yourself in trouble.

[fishbrains]

I use videos and such to review the growth mindset

Careful with that-- even when growth mindset interventions "work", the effects are modest at best. This provides a pretty good summery:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debate-arises-over-teaching-growth-mindsets-to-motivate-students/

Much better to teach concrete evidence-based study skills. This is a nice new review paper on how to do that:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691620920723
(Sorry, paywalled journal article, but you likely can access through your library),

Our system preaches growth mindset. I'm not sure I've drunk the Kool-Aid yet, but I like to use the idea to try to pry students (developmental students in particular) out of the "I'm not good at math/English/school/life/anything" kind of mindset. In short, I agree with you.

[Puget]

I use videos and such to review the growth mindset

Careful with that-- even when growth mindset interventions "work", the effects are modest at best. This provides a pretty good summery:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debate-arises-over-teaching-growth-mindsets-to-motivate-students/

Much better to teach concrete evidence-based study skills. This is a nice new review paper on how to do that:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691620920723
(Sorry, paywalled journal article, but you likely can access through your library),

Our system preaches growth mindset. I'm not sure I've drunk the Kool-Aid yet, but I like to use the idea to try to pry students (developmental students in particular) out of the "I'm not good at math/English/school/life/anything" kind of mindset. In short, I agree with you.

Right, it's not a bad thing as a first step, but the problem is just convincing them they can improve doesn't do anything to tell them how to improve, and they aren't likely to figure that part out by themselves. I think a lot of them say "I'm bad at X" not because they have a fixed mindset but because they are currently genuinely bad at X and don't know how to improve.   Luckily there's a whole lot of science showing how to improve in a lot of these abilities, so teaching those concrete strategies can really help-- my point was they are unlikely to benefit much just from a mindset intervention, if it isn't followed up by very specific instruction and practice with strategies known to work for improving. The paper I linked to has a very concrete program for that when it comes to some of the most robustly documented study skills that work, and the science of behavioral change.

[the_geneticist]

You could start with one of the classic high school vs. college articles out there (https://collegeinfogeek.com/college-vs-high-school/)

Have them discuss what they think will be easy for them, what they think will be harder, and strategies that are helpful.

[fishbrains]

I use videos and such to review the growth mindset

Careful with that-- even when growth mindset interventions "work", the effects are modest at best. This provides a pretty good summery:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debate-arises-over-teaching-growth-mindsets-to-motivate-students/

Much better to teach concrete evidence-based study skills. This is a nice new review paper on how to do that:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691620920723
(Sorry, paywalled journal article, but you likely can access through your library),

Our system preaches growth mindset. I'm not sure I've drunk the Kool-Aid yet, but I like to use the idea to try to pry students (developmental students in particular) out of the "I'm not good at math/English/school/life/anything" kind of mindset. In short, I agree with you.

Right, it's not a bad thing as a first step, but the problem is just convincing them they can improve doesn't do anything to tell them how to improve, and they aren't likely to figure that part out by themselves. I think a lot of them say "I'm bad at X" not because they have a fixed mindset but because they are currently genuinely bad at X and don't know how to improve.   Luckily there's a whole lot of science showing how to improve in a lot of these abilities, so teaching those concrete strategies can really help-- my point was they are unlikely to benefit much just from a mindset intervention, if it isn't followed up by very specific instruction and practice with strategies known to work for improving. The paper I linked to has a very concrete program for that when it comes to some of the most robustly documented study skills that work, and the science of behavioral change.

I will check out the article. Thanks!