universities ignored the modeling and science: IHE article

[polly_mer]

Who could have known that opening campuses in fall needed extra care?  Anyone who listened to the academic scientists who did the research.

https://insidehighered.com/news/2020/08/26/major-public-universities-havent-always-been-forthcoming-statistical-modeling-fall

[jimbogumbo]

Clearly, Iowa State isn't listening: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa-state/football/2020/08/31/iowa-state-allow-25-000-fans-attend-season-opener-jack-trice/3445822001/

[spork]

"Students told them they were making a hidden -- and likely incorrect -- assumption: that if you close the dining hall, students will go to their dorm rooms and eat by themselves.

'Students will congregate,' Keesing said. 'They will just congregate elsewhere.'"

[Caracal]

"Students told them they were making a hidden -- and likely incorrect -- assumption: that if you close the dining hall, students will go to their dorm rooms and eat by themselves.

'Students will congregate,' Keesing said. 'They will just congregate elsewhere.'"

Well yes, because they are people, who otherwise will be by themselves, which people don't like. Any plan with a chance of success was going to have to find safer ways for people to gather. The alternative to safer gatherings is not no gatherings. Of course, admitting that what you're trying to do is reduce risk, not eliminate it, would require actually looking at cases in the region, and whether mitigation measures would be enough to keep large outbreaks from starting.

[RatGuy]

It seems like everyone likes to blame "the bars" and "the parties" -- but that's not the whole picture. For example, our university's food court created a space where students can sit and eat while being distanced. Tables are marked "unavailable" and chairs are overturned. Signs and employees explain "available tables only, no more than 4 per table." Students ignored all of that -- closed tables were used, chairs were moved, the 4-person limit ignored. Pleas to obey the rules for the sake of health measures were met with apathy or belligerence. So now the food court is "takeout only." What happens? Students sit on the hallway floors with everyone, shoulder to shoulder. Talking loudly, close, maskless.

I've yet to tell a student that masks are require in my class -- they do it automatically, and they maintain distance in class. There's such a great mental divide between "school behavior" and "out of class behavior." Students will say "we want to contain the virus so the school stays open, because it's the right thing" per that other thread, but I think it's misleading to say "Universities are doing nothing." Indeed, some universities are doing a lot, but finding it very difficult to enforce the procedures they've crafted.

[Caracal]

It seems like everyone likes to blame "the bars" and "the parties" -- but that's not the whole picture. For example, our university's food court created a space where students can sit and eat while being distanced. Tables are marked "unavailable" and chairs are overturned. Signs and employees explain "available tables only, no more than 4 per table." Students ignored all of that -- closed tables were used, chairs were moved, the 4-person limit ignored. Pleas to obey the rules for the sake of health measures were met with apathy or belligerence. So now the food court is "takeout only." What happens? Students sit on the hallway floors with everyone, shoulder to shoulder. Talking loudly, close, maskless.

I've yet to tell a student that masks are require in my class -- they do it automatically, and they maintain distance in class. There's such a great mental divide between "school behavior" and "out of class behavior." Students will say "we want to contain the virus so the school stays open, because it's the right thing" per that other thread, but I think it's misleading to say "Universities are doing nothing." Indeed, some universities are doing a lot, but finding it very difficult to enforce the procedures they've crafted.

I don't think that is an example of a good plan. I doubt it was all or even most students ignoring the rules. Probably, it was a relatively small minority. Seems very foreseeable. Unless you're talking about highly paid professionals who have a lot to lose if they don't follow rules, you aren't ever going to get perfect compliance. The response from your school seems much worse than the initial problem, however. Obviously, the people who were being careless before aren't going to suddenly become more careful now, they'll just congregate in hallways where they pose more of a risk to themselves and others. Worse, now many students who were following the rules in the dining hall are also going to end up in those hallways.

[jimbogumbo]

More on Iowa State: https://www.wglt.org/post/how-isu-faring-covid-19-compared-other-midwest-college-towns#stream/0

[Bonnie]

More on Iowa State: https://www.wglt.org/post/how-isu-faring-covid-19-compared-other-midwest-college-towns#stream/0

That article seems to be about Illinois State not Iowa State. Looks like both midwestern ISUs are doing poorly.

[jimbogumbo]

More on Iowa State: https://www.wglt.org/post/how-isu-faring-covid-19-compared-other-midwest-college-towns#stream/0

That article seems to be about Illinois State not Iowa State. Looks like both midwestern ISUs are doing poorly.

Doh! It popped up on an Iowa State search.

[jimbogumbo]

Some background. I don't really care about Iowa State. I thought their football plan with fans was nuts, as that 25,000 is about 40% capacity. Alabama is only planning on 25% for reference.

I have a connection to the Big 10ish, but I care about the states of Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska only because my wife and I have to travel through them. I am also persuaded that the larger universities in smaller towns are putting the local citizenry at considerable risk.

I know that UNC Chapel Hill and University of Alabama have large numbers of cases, and I was curious what was happening in Iowa and Nebraska. Even more so as they are hot spots, and the fact that Iowa and Nebraska were two of the three positives votes to play football this Fall in the Big 10ish.

Illinois State is a shock. As stated in the article, they have 1023 student cases, and the University of Iowa has 922. Iowa State reports 655. I think the numbers accurately indicate that we are in big trouble over the next three weeks.

[kaysixteen]

I just opened an email from someone who is some sort of admin at a boarding school in a Mid-Atlantic state.  I vaguely remember having applied for a job there in spring 2019, an application that was never acknowledged at that time (sadly, pretty par for the course for boarding schools these days).  This admin greeted me warmly and asked if I had ever found work, was I still looking, etc.   I  told the truth, that I had had several interviews this spring which got mooted because of the pandemic.   She then wrote back directly and asked me if I were still looking now, said there may, not is, be a potential job available now.  Before answering, I went onto their website (before going there, truth be told I had forgotten where the place is, only that it is not around here).   I focused on the link to their 'campus reopening plan', which was pretty stunning.   One thing amongst many that stood out was the policies for students in their dorms, which  includes a requirement that all windows all be kept open all the time, and a corresponding suggestion that students bring more sweaters and long sleeve shirts.   There were a few other pretty out-there comments, including one that says that their class and housing policies may be revised at any time, and a school calendar that explicitly says that they do not yet know what their policies for after Christmas are going to be.  And this is a boarding school, not a college, so kids are obviously younger, though there is more direct oversight of them (and remember faculty live with them in dorms).   Now I would really like a job in a boarding school... just not now.   And not likely till the vaccine arriveth.   I told her that when I wrote back, adding in that I do have some preexisting conditions that do make me at somewhat higher risk for covid.  I hope that this does not brand me a quitter, a whatever-negative, but I do not want to freeze my butt off in a cooling-down dorm, full of kids, for a job that may go away anyhow.

[Caracal]

I just opened an email from someone who is some sort of admin at a boarding school in a Mid-Atlantic state.  I vaguely remember having applied for a job there in spring 2019, an application that was never acknowledged at that time (sadly, pretty par for the course for boarding schools these days).  This admin greeted me warmly and asked if I had ever found work, was I still looking, etc.   I  told the truth, that I had had several interviews this spring which got mooted because of the pandemic.   She then wrote back directly and asked me if I were still looking now, said there may, not is, be a potential job available now.  Before answering, I went onto their website (before going there, truth be told I had forgotten where the place is, only that it is not around here).   I focused on the link to their 'campus reopening plan', which was pretty stunning.   One thing amongst many that stood out was the policies for students in their dorms, which  includes a requirement that all windows all be kept open all the time, and a corresponding suggestion that students bring more sweaters and long sleeve shirts.   There were a few other pretty out-there comments, including one that says that their class and housing policies may be revised at any time, and a school calendar that explicitly says that they do not yet know what their policies for after Christmas are going to be.  And this is a boarding school, not a college, so kids are obviously younger, though there is more direct oversight of them (and remember faculty live with them in dorms).   Now I would really like a job in a boarding school... just not now.   And not likely till the vaccine arriveth.   I told her that when I wrote back, adding in that I do have some preexisting conditions that do make me at somewhat higher risk for covid.  I hope that this does not brand me a quitter, a whatever-negative, but I do not want to freeze my butt off in a cooling-down dorm, full of kids, for a job that may go away anyhow.

That does seem like an example of terrible planning. It doesn't seem impossible to open a boarding school safely. After all, you can test all the students at the beginning and just keep anybody from going off campus. Ideally you would then just be able to create a bubble. The problem would be more faculty and staff, especially ones who live in the dorms. Could you really tell them they can't leave the campus?

The window thing is ridiculous, however, and suggests that these people don't know what they are doing. That's just encouraging students to think of rules as ridiculous things that they just need to get around. Obviously, people are going to be closing their windows.

[writingprof]

My (middling) university has zero active cases.  I wonder why.  The kids aren't big partiers, preferring, as they do, to weep in corners about social injustice.  Yet they're too lazy to riot.  Have we found the perfect anti-COVID formula?

[Caracal]

My (middling) university has zero active cases.  I wonder why.  The kids aren't big partiers, preferring, as they do, to weep in corners about social injustice.  Yet they're too lazy to riot.  Have we found the perfect anti-COVID formula?

Well, are you in the northeast?

[jimbogumbo]

https://cyclones.com/news/2020/9/2/university-changes-decision-on-football.aspx