So adjuncts have zero right?

[Wahoo Redux]

If nothing else, go here.

Apply for online teaching.

Just click the search box for "online only."

https://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/search.cfm?JobCat=82&StartRow=-1&SortBy=4&NumJobs=25&filterby=&filterrtype=2&CatType=

Some of those test-prep services need expert essay writers.  I hear they pay badly but they pay by the piece.

Don't work for one of those essay writing services as that is unethical.

[hamburger]

At least in my CC,

Hamburger, it's time to stop thinking of this place as my employer. You need to move on and find other work, instead of waiting around, begging for whatever scraps they might throw you. Apply for jobs as a cashier, Amazon warehouse worker, office temp, anything that offers a weekly paycheck. Buy groceries, pay the electric bill, and apply for more appealing jobs after work. We used to call accepting that life isn't fair and that work isn't always fun, growing up. Lately, I've heard it called "adulting."

You mentioned that you don't enjoy applying for jobs, especially when you have to fill in online forms instead of just attaching a CV.  I agree, applying for jobs is not fun. Filling in forms is not fun. I can't think of anyone who's ever claimed to enjoy job hunting. Spend 8-10 hours a day, every day, applying for jobs anyway. You may not enjoy it, but it's the only way that most of us find work.

I did a PhD in the field of machine learning. It was a prestigious field and most people in the world had no idea what it was at that time. I worked very hard on it and devoted my life to it. As machine learning and data science are hot topics these days, there should be lots of jobs for me. Too bad, for their fame, some established traitors in the field decided to make it easy for everybody to get into the field. They created easy to use frameworks for the general public to use. Even people who don't know how to program nor do mathematical modeling can use some frameworks. Tones of people learn how to use those frameworks and apply for jobs in these areas. Hiring managers also have no idea who to choose. I am sure that most of them also have no formal training in these fields. Knowing how to do machine learning is no longer special. Somehow I only got about 3 interviews from companies in almost five years but they ended up hiring people from the industry. A local university offered special certificates in these areas. They only hired one recent PhD in ML. The rest of the instructors who got the jobs are all from the industry. I contacted the hiring manger who does not even has a degree in STEM many times and asked to meet with him. Never heard from him. I approached a company that offers certificate courses in these areas. They also hired people from the industry not PhD to teach. Somehow, hiring mangers prefer to hire people from the industry. I read that some companies don't care about advanced degrees. They only hire people who is just good enough to get the job done.

[Ruralguy]

If many jobs in your field don't need anybody with an advanced degree then, yes, they won't hire anybody with an advanced degree. I think that's the natural progression of just about any type of engineering. I think at this point its pretty clear that jobs in your field are just one small option for you, and you will have to go beyond that. This isn't a criticism, just an objective analysis.

[Cheerful]

Maybe hamburger is progressing through the stages of grief about his career: 

denial
anger
bargaining
depression
acceptance

Quite understandable.

Hamburger, you have a great deal of sympathy and support on this board.  Persevere and keep doing your best and you can have a better life.

p.s.  In many fields, PhDs are increasingly "no longer special."

[clean]

H&R block meant you no longer needed a trained accountant to do your taxes.
Turbotax meant you didnt have to meet with H&R block.

Robo Advisors mean that you dont need a Financial Specialist to help allocate your portfolio.

It is the way of things. 

As for hiring industry people, it seems that the ones making the decisions are saying that they do not care about the theory or the math or any of the bones of where the OPs field were buried but by hiring industry people, they prefer to hire those that are now expert on what the field is NOW, and prefers those that are current in those 'easy to use frameworks' that made  it easy to USE (ie monetize). 

IF the OP can demonstrate that HE can USE those techniques, then perhaps employment is available, maybe even as a consultant or someone who can do this work from his current home.

[hamburger]

Maybe hamburger is progressing through the stages of grief about his career: 

denial
anger
bargaining
depression
acceptance

Quite understandable.

Hamburger, you have a great deal of sympathy and support on this board.  Persevere and keep doing your best and you can have a better life.

p.s.  In many fields, PhDs are increasingly "no longer special."

Thank you.

Do I really need to get active in Linkedin to get a job in a company these days? On the internet, somebody mentioned that if one just put some brief information on the account without posting all the details to let everybody to know the entire career, it is worse than not having a Linkedin account. Every time I log into my account, I see tones of folks jumping to my field taking my jobs. There are also people who just pretend to be in the field by forwarding posts made by others daily. I am considering to delete my account and never access Linkedin.

[Kron3007]

It is tough, but a lot of fields move like that.  I remember a friend of mine did their MSc thesis developing a PCR method.  At the time, this was a MSc level project, but now it is all kit based and is done in some high school classes.  He did his MSc in molecular biology, but his expertise based on his thesis would not get him a job as a molecular biologist in the current climate.  In his case, he remained actively engaged and is still working in his field, but my point is a degree from a while ago in a fast paced field wont get you very far unless you have kept actively engaged and current. 

We recently started doing some relatively basic machine learning projects in my lab, and as you suggest, this dosn't require us to have a machine learning expert in house as there are programs to do this now.  In my case, I was able to recruit a biologist with experience in my field that has recently used machine learning quite a bit.  I dont deny that it would be ideal to have a machine learning expert on board, but with my limited resources I would have to choose.  From my perspective, since it is not a major focus of ours, it is better to hire someone in my field with this background rather than a hard core machine learning researcher.

[hamburger]

H&R block meant you no longer needed a trained accountant to do your taxes.
Turbotax meant you didnt have to meet with H&R block.

Robo Advisors mean that you dont need a Financial Specialist to help allocate your portfolio.

It is the way of things. 

As for hiring industry people, it seems that the ones making the decisions are saying that they do not care about the theory or the math or any of the bones of where the OPs field were buried but by hiring industry people, they prefer to hire those that are now expert on what the field is NOW, and prefers those that are current in those 'easy to use frameworks' that made  it easy to USE (ie monetize). 

IF the OP can demonstrate that HE can USE those techniques, then perhaps employment is available, maybe even as a consultant or someone who can do this work from his current home.

So even I hate these frameworks that have been helping people outside my field to get the jobs that I should have been hired, I still need to do it?

Yes, thanks to technology, even with a smartphone anybody can be a photographer, a video editor or their own movie director.  When I built DIY computers over 20 years ago, I got lots of admirations from people around me. Now even kids can build DIY PC. In the past, only technically oriented people used Linux but anybody can use it now. In the past people who had great inventions got attention from the media but now anybody can get media attention via Youtube and SNS. I don't know how they do it by tones of people are sponsored and have free access to new technologies to review new computers and equipment on their Youtube channels. With access to technology, even kids can use a 3D printer to make things.  Anybody can access information and technology. It is hard to invent as so many people are on the internet fishing for ideas. Before the pandemic, so many people from the general public in my city signed up for meetup events on machine learning and data science that even I could not join.  Technology raised the bar. Average joes now have the means to compete with PhD for jobs. Thanks to online learning, a degree from higher education became useless.

A famous senior professor in Computer Science also complained to me that he used to get lots of invited talks but for the past few years, he got none. His PhD students also have a hard time in finding a job.

[hamburger]

It is tough, but a lot of fields move like that.  I remember a friend of mine did their MSc thesis developing a PCR method.  At the time, this was a MSc level project, but now it is all kit based and is done in some high school classes.  He did his MSc in molecular biology, but his expertise based on his thesis would not get him a job as a molecular biologist in the current climate.  In his case, he remained actively engaged and is still working in his field, but my point is a degree from a while ago in a fast paced field wont get you very far unless you have kept actively engaged and current. 

We recently started doing some relatively basic machine learning projects in my lab, and as you suggest, this dosn't require us to have a machine learning expert in house as there are programs to do this now.  In my case, I was able to recruit a biologist with experience in my field that has recently used machine learning quite a bit.  I dont deny that it would be ideal to have a machine learning expert on board, but with my limited resources I would have to choose.  From my perspective, since it is not a major focus of ours, it is better to hire someone in my field with this background rather than a hard core machine learning researcher.

Exactly!  I guess it is a problem for those who have gone through traditional education system 20-30 years ago. Higher Education is no longer valued.

I once attended a local meeting at a company that trains people to be a Data Scientist or a Machine Learning Engineer. As far as I can tell, tones of people who knew nothing attended. The speaker talked about how good it is to get a job in ML and DS. He then told everybody that he has no PhD and an advanced degree is not required to work in these areas. He said that there is also no need to know how the algorithms work and one does not need to be an expert in Python. Just know enough to get the job done is OK. He then advertised that after completion of a certificate program at his company (if I recall correctly, it was about 50 hours worth), one would have all the background to get a job in these fields and through connections with the industry they have, it would be very easy to get a job. I have asked them twice in a year about job opportunity but they said no. I found that their instructors are from the industry or low-level university that I have not heard of.

[Puget]

It is tough, but a lot of fields move like that.  I remember a friend of mine did their MSc thesis developing a PCR method.  At the time, this was a MSc level project, but now it is all kit based and is done in some high school classes.  He did his MSc in molecular biology, but his expertise based on his thesis would not get him a job as a molecular biologist in the current climate.  In his case, he remained actively engaged and is still working in his field, but my point is a degree from a while ago in a fast paced field wont get you very far unless you have kept actively engaged and current. 

We recently started doing some relatively basic machine learning projects in my lab, and as you suggest, this dosn't require us to have a machine learning expert in house as there are programs to do this now.  In my case, I was able to recruit a biologist with experience in my field that has recently used machine learning quite a bit.  I dont deny that it would be ideal to have a machine learning expert on board, but with my limited resources I would have to choose.  From my perspective, since it is not a major focus of ours, it is better to hire someone in my field with this background rather than a hard core machine learning researcher.

Exactly!  I guess it is a problem for those who have gone through traditional education system 20-30 years ago.

I once attended a local meeting at a company that trains people to be a Data Scientist or a Machine Learning Engineer. As far as I can tell, tones of people who knew nothing attended. The speaker talked about how good it is to get a job in ML and DS. He then told everybody that he has no PhD and an advanced degree is not required to work in these areas. He then advertised that after completion of a certificate program at his company (if I recall correctly, it was about 50 hours worth), one would have all the background to get a job in these fields and through connections with the industry they have, it would be very easy to get a job. I have asked them twice in a year about job opportunity but they said no. I found that their instructors are from the industry or low-level university that I have not heard of.

Hamburger, we've heard these same laments from you over and over now-- what is your goal here? If you just want to vent, you can do that on the venting thread. But if you want to actually change your life, you need to move on from thinking the world owes you a job in your field -- it may not be fair, but the world is simply not the way you want it to be. You've told this exact same story before, and several of us suggested you *do* the certificate program, but instead you have tried to get hired to *teach* the certificate program, which you clearly aren't qualified to do you don't know  the modern tools they teach.

Employers are not going to reward you for having a PhD and past research experience-- they are going to hire the person who can get the job done as inexpensively and with the least headache possible, and that is someone who already knows how to use the specific tools they need used for the specific tasks they need done. You could potentially become that person, but only if you drop the attitude that you should not need to do these things and they should hire you based on qualifications that are frankly irrelevant to them.

You've gotten lots of good advice on how to approach getting a job. You do not seem to like this advice, but what you have been doing is clearly not working-- you're choice is no job at all or trying the things people have been suggesting here.

[downer]

Puget, Hamburger has also already got plenty of messages just like the one you wrote.

What is the next stage, going from having a terrible job to having no job? What happens to Hamburger and parent then? Maybe there's some other source of income which takes off the pressure from actually making real changes. Who knows.

[hamburger]

It is tough, but a lot of fields move like that.  I remember a friend of mine did their MSc thesis developing a PCR method.  At the time, this was a MSc level project, but now it is all kit based and is done in some high school classes.  He did his MSc in molecular biology, but his expertise based on his thesis would not get him a job as a molecular biologist in the current climate.  In his case, he remained actively engaged and is still working in his field, but my point is a degree from a while ago in a fast paced field wont get you very far unless you have kept actively engaged and current. 

We recently started doing some relatively basic machine learning projects in my lab, and as you suggest, this dosn't require us to have a machine learning expert in house as there are programs to do this now.  In my case, I was able to recruit a biologist with experience in my field that has recently used machine learning quite a bit.  I dont deny that it would be ideal to have a machine learning expert on board, but with my limited resources I would have to choose.  From my perspective, since it is not a major focus of ours, it is better to hire someone in my field with this background rather than a hard core machine learning researcher.

Exactly!  I guess it is a problem for those who have gone through traditional education system 20-30 years ago.

I once attended a local meeting at a company that trains people to be a Data Scientist or a Machine Learning Engineer. As far as I can tell, tones of people who knew nothing attended. The speaker talked about how good it is to get a job in ML and DS. He then told everybody that he has no PhD and an advanced degree is not required to work in these areas. He then advertised that after completion of a certificate program at his company (if I recall correctly, it was about 50 hours worth), one would have all the background to get a job in these fields and through connections with the industry they have, it would be very easy to get a job. I have asked them twice in a year about job opportunity but they said no. I found that their instructors are from the industry or low-level university that I have not heard of.

Hamburger, we've heard these same laments from you over and over now-- what is your goal here? If you just want to vent, you can do that on the venting thread. But if you want to actually change your life, you need to move on from thinking the world owes you a job in your field -- it may not be fair, but the world is simply not the way you want it to be. You've told this exact same story before, and several of us suggested you *do* the certificate program, but instead you have tried to get hired to *teach* the certificate program, which you clearly aren't qualified to do you don't know  the modern tools they teach.

Employers are not going to reward you for having a PhD and past research experience-- they are going to hire the person who can get the job done as inexpensively and with the least headache possible, and that is someone who already knows how to use the specific tools they need used for the specific tasks they need done. You could potentially become that person, but only if you drop the attitude that you should not need to do these things and they should hire you based on qualifications that are frankly irrelevant to them.

You've gotten lots of good advice on how to approach getting a job. You do not seem to like this advice, but what you have been doing is clearly not working-- you're choice is no job at all or trying the things people have been suggesting here.

Thank you. I got a few certificates on using these latest frameworks from Coursera two years ago but companies don't seem to care. So just spend some money to get a certificate from that kind of company or a local university? Quite often, companies list experiences in using things like: Hadoop, Amazon Web Services, Spark. I think such experiences can only be obtained by working in a company. In one interview, they asked if I had used Amazon Web Services. I said no but I had used clusters of Linux Workstations at different top universities to do ML research. It would be easy for me to use AWS. Later, they told me that they hired somebody from the industry.

[Kron3007]

Perhaps the issue is that there are many jobs that use machine learning, but not many jobs directly related to pure machine learning like developing algorithms etc (Sounds like this is what you were trained in).  If you are too focussed on hard core macine learning and think that should get you jobs applying machine learning techniques, you may be way off.

Its like if you are a statistician studying deep principles of mathematics, you may not be the best candidate to help me with my experimental design questions.  We can use software programs to run the analysis, so we don't need someone with deep understanding of the math, we need someone who understands the constraints of our systems and is good at setting up out experiments to get the best use of them.

This is the same with the machine learning project I started.  I hired a biologist who knows how to use the programs.  He has a good grasp on machine learning principles,  but is by no means an expert.  However, he understands our specific system and can implement machine learning better than someone who codes and understands the underlying principles.

My point is that perhaps you need to think about how to branch out and strengthen other aspects.  Becoming even more deeply involved with mahine learning may not be the best path forward.  I will also say that higher degrees are valued, but only if they are in the right area and matched with other experience.

[Wahoo Redux]

Dumb question, HM, but are you able to design machine learning programs yourself?  Would companies pay for something you could create?

Can you retool yourself as an entrepreneur or designer instead of an academic?           

[polly_mer]

Dumb question, HM, but are you able to design machine learning programs yourself?  Would companies pay for something you could create?     

We are currently hiring for ML jobs in droves from high school student interns through PhD.

However, we would be very reluctant to hire someone who answers 'have you any experience with common tools that can be downloaded for free?' with the equivalent of 'I am proficient in Word and good at Excel so I can probably learn'.  Experience using Linux clusters is so common and easy to pick up today that only the high school interns may not have that experience. We don't even make that an explicit requirement just as we don't explicitly require being functionally literate or numerate.

We are doing interviews over the next two weeks with people who have PhDs in something other than ML who have minimal to no experience in ML because we can't get true ML experts.  However, we would be very reluctant to even invite for an interview someone who thought a two-year-old certificate from Coursera without recent project experience was a relevant qualification, especially if the majority of the cover letter focused on very outdated experiences.

Writing as an old dog who was hired to learn new tricks, we hire people who even have been out of the work force for family reasons.  The 'trick' is to convince the hiring committee that you will learn new things instead of asserting that the old things should be highly valued.

We do have far fewer PhDs programming new ML architectures who have the direct graduate training than we have interested PhDs in other specialties who are branching out.  It might actually be worse to be seriously outdated than to be a novice.  We've found that to be true for the nearing-retirement folks who keep programming Fortran 77 logic using Python syntax.

Not being familiar with the current standard tools and processes means one is likely to be reinventing the wheel at great expense and a company generally won't pay for that, even if they will pay for new proprietary tools to be developed.