Adrian alumni saves liberal arts

[Ruralguy]

Wahoo (and all),

I think the broader point here is that "saving the liberal arts" may no longer be (maybe never was) confluent  with the success of small colleges or some under-funded larger ones.  More bluntly, saving the jobs of a couple of, say, philosophers, today may just be hastening the end of a college that no longer serves the community (and I think its accurate to say that almost all small colleges away from the elites primarily serve the region with about 100 miles of the school).  My school is making many of these adjustments, but I fear that this and our unique mission may be a day late and a dollar short (or more likely, decades late and millions short). 

[Wahoo Redux]

Thanks Ruralguy.  We, or at least I, know all that.

It's been shouted ad nauseum on these boards.

Adrian, like many colleges, defines itself a certain way that includes a certain curriculum.  This old curriculum may no longer be viable.  A "liberal arts" education as such may be religated to the past because of the realities of finance, student interest, and student demographics, and a great many "liberal arts" colleges may die in the next decade----as many as 400 of them in the next decade or less now that COVID has thrown some major body blows at society. 

Certain posters seem to think they are the only people who have run across this information.  They derail the conversation by retreading the same territory.  These folks are frustrated that not everyone agrees with them.  I suspect their arguments go beyond an objective evaluation, but that is neither here nor there, really.

Yet we still have an ideology about what and how certain institutions teach, and at least some of us think this is a valuable ideal.  Sure, there may be some self interest involved, but there is also a real ideal worth fighting for.

I think it is perhaps time to move past this obvious conundrum.  If we have nothing to say but the obvious, maybe we shouldn't say anything at all.  Maybe there is nothing to be said. 

The alumni of this particular college saw something of value in the old ways of doing things.  Adrian appears to be making a go at it.  Who knows if they will be successful?

So thank you again, but yes, I know.

[marshwiggle]

Thanks Ruralguy.  We, or at least I, know all that.

It's been shouted ad nauseum on these boards.

Adrian, like many colleges, defines itself a certain way that includes a certain curriculum.  This old curriculum may no longer be viable.  A "liberal arts" education as such may be religated to the past because of the realities of finance, student interest, and student demographics, and a great many "liberal arts" colleges may die in the next decade----as many as 400 of them in the next decade or less now that COVID has thrown some major body blows at society. 

Certain posters seem to think they are the only people who have run across this information.  They derail the conversation by retreading the same territory.  These folks are frustrated that not everyone agrees with them.  I suspect their arguments go beyond an objective evaluation, but that is neither here nor there, really.

Yet we still have an ideology about what and how certain institutions teach, and at least some of us think this is a valuable ideal.  Sure, there may be some self interest involved, but there is also a real ideal worth fighting for.

I think it is perhaps time to move past this obvious conundrum.  If we have nothing to say but the obvious, maybe we shouldn't say anything at all.  Maybe there is nothing to be said. 

So the "ideal" is apparently no longer viable at the current scale. That leaves two options that I can see:

• Stick to the "ideal", and let Darwin reduce the numbers to what is viable.
• Rethink the "ideal", to see if there may be broad appeal for something adapted from it, but different.

Is the first option the only one worth considering?

[Wahoo Redux]

Thanks Marshy.

Again, I think we've been there already.

And sure, education has already changed since I was an undergrad lo these many years.  It will no doubt change to fit the new zeitgeist and the new market realities.

We've agreed on this before.

[Wahoo Redux]

What I think is noteworthy here is not the tired debate about the future of the liberal arts.

I think it is interesting what publicity can accomplish, even in the short term.  Things can be changed.

There've been many a forumite who, for reasons I could never fathom, automatically deny the effect of media exposure.

Here is an example of how things can be rerouted by getting the word out and generating grassroots activism. 

And yes, thank you, it very well may fail.  Some of you are very wise in this regard.

[mleok]

There has always been a fundamental disconnect between what many faculty perceive as the role of higher education, in the sense of the holistic liberal arts model, vs. what students, parents, and society as a whole view it as, which tends to be more focused on the economic impact and vocational/pre-professional training.

[marshwiggle]

This whole discussion brings to mind the movie (or play) "Kinky Boots". A manufacturer is on the verge of bankruptcy producing a high quality product but with declining demand. Faced with the situation, instead of clsing the doors they opt to use the skills and expertise to develop very different but related products that have a strong market. Just buying more advertising and sending out more sales staff isn't going to change the future.

[dismalist]

 

Faced with the situation, instead of clsing the doors they opt to use the skills and expertise to develop very different but related products that have a strong market.

Reminds me of a comedic version of that story,  The Efficiency Expert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotswood_(film). While the story is treacle, what I particularly like about it is that the expert sees that the workers are willing to work to save the firm and that he suggests to the firm's owner that the workers could be made partners, with a money buy-in I take it. It's this last which gives the story a chance to be real, and not just emotion.

But such conditions hardly apply at most colleges in trouble.

[Wahoo Redux]

Hm.  Okay.

I think we are going to say the same things repeatedly.

Fair enough.

[spork]

Twenty to forty years ago, Adrian College, and others like it, could have paid attention to trends and made changes to try to remain viable. Didn't happen.

[Wahoo Redux]

Again Spork, someone has said that.

The alumni mobilized.  That is new.  I don't know if they have a workable cause or not, but that is something that the intelligent professional educators here could say something about.

We sometimes say very simple things that, I think, reflect our own demoralized culture.

I don't know how valid this is, but these are interesting responses.

[marshwiggle]

The alumni mobilized.  That is new.  I don't know if they have a workable cause or not, but that is something that the intelligent professional educators here could say something about.

The question is, even if the place survives, how long before this comes up again? And how likely are the alumni to make as big a stink the next time?

It is a reprieve in  the short term at that institution. It's not a strategy that is likely to revive the fortunes of the humanities in any broader context in the long term.

(FWIW, the main program I worked with for decades got eliminated for budget reasons. It was innovative and unique, but didn't have the numbers. A couple of other programs got eliminated at the same time for similar reasons. What my department managed to do was to make some of the required courses in that program into viable, popular electives for students in our other much larger program. So we now have more students taking those courses as part of a different but related program. It's not the same, but it has its own value.)

[apl68]

Wahoo (and all),

I think the broader point here is that "saving the liberal arts" may no longer be (maybe never was) confluent  with the success of small colleges or some under-funded larger ones.  More bluntly, saving the jobs of a couple of, say, philosophers, today may just be hastening the end of a college that no longer serves the community (and I think its accurate to say that almost all small colleges away from the elites primarily serve the region with about 100 miles of the school).  My school is making many of these adjustments, but I fear that this and our unique mission may be a day late and a dollar short (or more likely, decades late and millions short).

In looking at these debates, I think that there is a general recognition that many small colleges are in danger of closing, and that many small liberal arts departments have ceased to be viable.  The disagreement seems to be between those who, whenever they see news about a struggling college or department, more or less reflexively write it off, and those who entertain hopes that at least some of them still have a fighting chance.  Wahoo is very passionately in the latter category. 

I tend to take the view that some of the struggling places and programs might still have a chance to make it too.  But I know that realistically the odds against many of them are pretty long.  Still, where there's life, there's hope.  Once in a while a cause that some have written off as hopeless can still beat the odds.  Looking at situations from a distance, it's hard to know which of these struggling schools are really done for, and which ones might yet manage to be salvaged.

[spork]

Again Spork, someone has said that.

The alumni mobilized.  That is new.  I don't know if they have a workable cause or not, but that is something that the intelligent professional educators here could say something about.

We sometimes say very simple things that, I think, reflect our own demoralized culture.

I don't know how valid this is, but these are interesting responses.

I'd like to know how many endowed faculty chair positions the alumni mobilization has funded. Let's conservatively assume $80,000 in salary and benefits per year and a 5% annual draw on the endowment. That results in a per-faculty position endowment of $1.6 million. How many faculty positions have been funded by alumni donations instead of current-student tuition since the mobilization began?

[Golazo]

One question that's a bit different from the will they make it/won't they debate. Is number of completions the best way to measure the utility of a program? For example, our Nursing program has the most majors of our undergraduate programs but we barely break even. Its real value is the number of psychology and social work majors it creates who can't do the bio and chem but want to stay. By contrast, some of social science programs have 1/6th of majors but make more money for the university. If the liberal arts courses at Adrian are well regarded and cost effective, and if they produce students who enjoy their gen ed, and perhaps some minors, I'm not sure completions is the right metric.