Adrian alumni saves liberal arts

[marshwiggle]

One question that's a bit different from the will they make it/won't they debate. Is number of completions the best way to measure the utility of a program? For example, our Nursing program has the most majors of our undergraduate programs but we barely break even. Its real value is the number of psychology and social work majors it creates who can't do the bio and chem but want to stay. By contrast, some of social science programs have 1/6th of majors but make more money for the university. If the liberal arts courses at Adrian are well regarded and cost effective, and if they produce students who enjoy their gen ed, and perhaps some minors, I'm not sure completions is the right metric.

Cost effectiveness can be fudged. If a course is required for everyone in several programs, it will be "cost effective", but if it's not intrinsically needed for those programs, then that's misleading. An easy way to try and "protect" resources is to make courses compulsory, but among other things that means reducing enrollments in other courses that are elective but may be more popular and more relevant.

[spork]

One question that's a bit different from the will they make it/won't they debate. Is number of completions the best way to measure the utility of a program? For example, our Nursing program has the most majors of our undergraduate programs but we barely break even. Its real value is the number of psychology and social work majors it creates who can't do the bio and chem but want to stay. By contrast, some of social science programs have 1/6th of majors but make more money for the university. If the liberal arts courses at Adrian are well regarded and cost effective, and if they produce students who enjoy their gen ed, and perhaps some minors, I'm not sure completions is the right metric.

Cost effectiveness can be fudged. If a course is required for everyone in several programs, it will be "cost effective", but if it's not intrinsically needed for those programs, then that's misleading. An easy way to try and "protect" resources is to make courses compulsory, but among other things that means reducing enrollments in other courses that are elective but may be more popular and more relevant.

Forcing students to take courses that are both unpopular and irrelevant is fundamental to curriculum design at many of these institutions.

[mleok]

The alumni mobilized.  That is new.  I don't know if they have a workable cause or not, but that is something that the intelligent professional educators here could say something about.

As they say, money talks, how many professional chairs in the liberal arts have the alumni endowed, how much have they donated to the endowment, and do they send their kids to Adrian paying full sticker? People are often very good about sharing their opinons on how to spend someone else's money, but they all disappear when it comes time to pay the piper.

[mleok]

Again Spork, someone has said that.

The alumni mobilized.  That is new.  I don't know if they have a workable cause or not, but that is something that the intelligent professional educators here could say something about.

We sometimes say very simple things that, I think, reflect our own demoralized culture.

I don't know how valid this is, but these are interesting responses.

I'd like to know how many endowed faculty chair positions the alumni mobilization has funded. Let's conservatively assume $80,000 in salary and benefits per year and a 5% annual draw on the endowment. That results in a per-faculty position endowment of $1.6 million. How many faculty positions have been funded by alumni donations instead of current-student tuition since the mobilization began?

Haha, I made the same point before reading your response, sorry for duplicating your point.

[mleok]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again?

How is your snark and rose-tinted glasses any more productive? People repeat themselves because some others seem to deny the stark reality of the situation. If you discussed realistic ways for universities to bridge the gaping holes in their funding model, while preserving the liberal arts, I am sure we would all be happy to engage in that discussion instead.

As mentioned, the alumni haven't realy mobilized if they have not helped to address the underlying fiscal shortfalls that prompted the move to cut the liberal arts at Adrian, otherwise they're delaying the inevitable, and making the subsequent response all that much more painful. Sometimes, you have to excise the necrotic tissue to save the rest of the organism.

[marshwiggle]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again?

How is your snark and rose-tinted glasses any more productive? People repeat themselves because some others seem to deny the stark reality of the situation. If you discussed realistic ways for universities to bridge the gaping holes in their funding model, while preserving the liberal arts, I am sure we would all be happy to engage in that discussion instead.

As mentioned, the alumni haven't realy mobilized if they have not helped to address the underlying fiscal shortfalls that prompted the move to cut the liberal arts at Adrian, otherwise they're delaying the inevitable, and making the subsequent response all that much more painful. Sometimes, you have to excise the necrotic tissue to save the rest of the organism.

I liked the word someone coined a few years ago, "slacktivism". Signing petitions, writing letters, "liking" social media posts, etc. all give people a good feeling without actually requiring any concrete sacrifice. "Virtue signalling" has kind of replaced it in some contexts, but in ones like this slacktivism is still more descriptive.

[polly_mer]

Alumni have mobilized at the slacktivism letter-writing effort many, many times to various short-term effect.  Anyone who thinks Adrian is somehow different hasn't been paying attention in the past ten years.

For real alumni effort that did save the school in ways that matter, far fewer examples exist:

* Antioch College is a real success story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioch_College but they are truly tiny with a very specialized mission and an uncertain future with Covid.

* Sweet Briar didn't close, but they also have not regained a healthy state even before Covid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Briar_College

[Wahoo Redux]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again?

How is your snark and rose-tinted glasses any more productive? People repeat themselves because some others seem to deny the stark reality of the situation. If you discussed realistic ways for universities to bridge the gaping holes in their funding model, while preserving the liberal arts, I am sure we would all be happy to engage in that discussion instead.

You know, I've tried.  And bite me, I have no "rose tinted glasses."  I've posted numerous times about our problems and my humble suggestions and the humble suggestions of others.  Someone like you, my friend, bombs in after the conversation is far into the game with the typical 'can't-snap-your-fingers' rhetoric.  The alumni changed things with a publicity campaign.  It's fact.  Is that rose tinted?  Look back; do I not acknowledge the "stark reality" that this effort may fail?  Did you not actually read the thread?

I have acknowledged the "star reality" many times on this thread and others.  I am here pointing out a way that things might change over the long run.  Polly inadvertently made my point too, acknowledging that none of this is a sure thing.

The adjunct world was slowly changing because of publicity.  I point this out.  People go away.

Nor do I think I engaged in "snark."  We all say the same things over and over again.

Methinks maybe these forums are pointless.

[marshwiggle]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again?

How is your snark and rose-tinted glasses any more productive? People repeat themselves because some others seem to deny the stark reality of the situation. If you discussed realistic ways for universities to bridge the gaping holes in their funding model, while preserving the liberal arts, I am sure we would all be happy to engage in that discussion instead.

You know, I've tried.  And bite me, I have no "rose tinted glasses."  I've posted numerous times about our problems and my humble suggestions and the humble suggestions of others.  Someone like you, my friend, bombs in after the conversation is far into the game with the typical 'can't-snap-your-fingers' rhetoric.  The alumni changed things with a publicity campaign.  It's fact.  Is that rose tinted?  Look back; do I not acknowledge the "stark reality" that this effort may fail?  Did you not actually read the thread?

I have acknowledged the "star reality" many times on this thread and others.  I am here pointing out a way that things might change over the long run.

Do you honestly think that all that is required for the long term preservation of humanities is these sorts of publicity campaigns? All kinds of disciplines have had to adapt and change over time to re-invent themselves as society changes. If you feel you don't get much sympathy, try suggesting how you think the disciplines need to change in order to change their own fortunes.

We all say the same things over and over again.

Methinks maybe these forums are pointless.

I find them worthwhile when people provide new or different insights.

[Ruralguy]

I know this is going to probably sound like a repetition, but I'll say it anyway because of stuff.

I'm actually a better fit to the ancient trivium/quadrivium stuff  than a modern adaptation of liberal arts that includes pre-business and pre-engineering (and on the side, gets rid of philosophers, classicists, and many modern linguists). However, facts are facts. Our enrollments are dropping, and though I don't want to give the impression than hundreds are budding engineers, that's starting to seem like a better option than traditional chem and physics. Bio is big because of all of the "life science" fields (and biochem). Pre-bus is absolutely more popular, at least for the remainder that have enrolled, than traditional econ, and yes, we give them that option. We probably won't be able to hire replacements in certain fields because students just aren't interested in the classes, even just for gen ed or electives . This isn't just classics and philosophy, its some STEM (especially "pure math" and some branches of physics) too. So, do we just adopt a "pre-$" curriculum? No, I don't think so, but we need to adapt to reality.

I'm not sure I want to be "saved" by alums or trustees or whoever, because I worry that this would not really save the institution. Id rather be part of a faculty that better adapts to the modern world. Yes, this might mean that the field I got hired into dies when I retire, but such is the way of things.

[mleok]

The alumni changed things with a publicity campaign.

The alumni haven't really changed anything in a lasting way. That's the point we disagree on.