What to do?

[Vid]

Hello good people,

I recently made a big move and moved to an R1 land grant University. it is a great school with great ranking but my appointment is 75%, 25% Extension. I do not have Extension background and it seems they just wanted to pay portion of my salary from Extension so they kept me on this program (I negotiated with Chair but did not work out). My point : I feel a little frustrated bc I have been a traditional faculty for around 5 years before joining this position and I really miss teaching. I am not sure if I apply for a new faculty position I will find a better ranking university, but I just miss teaching and Extension is not something that motivates me. My office is located on an Extension site not on main campus, it is very close to the main campus. Another issue is that they do not even provide me a lab space on campus since I am stationed on an Extension site. they said you need to establish your lab on the Extension site.

I am really happy with my salary and startup package but I really miss interacting with faculty and students.  I have been on this new position for almost 9-month. Do you advise to move on and apply for another institution? I lost my motivation. 

Senior faculty please advise me, I am a new bee!

Thank you.

[Liquidambar]

You might as well apply if you see any jobs available that look more appealing.  However, I recommend seeking out opportunities to interact with people on main campus.  Are there departmental seminar series you could attend?  Probably everything is virtual at the moment, but maybe you could still increase your exposure this way.  Can you mentor research students from the main campus?

[ciao_yall]

What do you mean by "Extension?"

[research_prof]

Hello good people,

I recently made a big move and moved to an R1 land grant University. it is a great school with great ranking but my appointment is 75%, 25% Extension. I do not have Extension background and it seems they just wanted to pay portion of my salary from Extension so they kept me on this program (I negotiated with Chair but did not work out). My point : I feel a little frustrated bc I have been a traditional faculty for around 5 years before joining this position and I really miss teaching. I am not sure if I apply for a new faculty position I will find a better ranking university, but I just miss teaching and Extension is not something that motivates me. My office is located on an Extension site not on main campus, it is very close to the main campus. Another issue is that they do not even provide me a lab space on campus since I am stationed on an Extension site. they said you need to establish your lab on the Extension site.

I am really happy with my salary and startup package but I really miss interacting with faculty and students.  I have been on this new position for almost 9-month. Do you advise to move on and apply for another institution? I lost my motivation. 

Senior faculty please advise me, I am a new bee!

Thank you.

Yes, you can move to a new university and please can you recommend me for a tenure track position that does not require me to teach? Sorry, but your situation does not sound like a problem at all to me. Sounds like paradise.

[Vid]

I have a 25% Extension and a 75% Research appointment (no TEACHING). Extension means working with community and the public and transferring my research on the ground to the citizens!

I have started interacting with faculty on main campus. I LOVE this position but I feel I amnot on a good spot! I am an interdisciplinary faculty and my appointment supposed to be a joint appointment with another department (department A). But when my department formed the search committee they didnot invite department A in the search process and they got mad and didnot give me a joint appointment. I should say that my background fits 80% with Department A and I currently have 2 Ph.D. students with Department A program. The problem is I donot get the credits while spending a lot of time, energy, and $$$$ to work with Ph.D. students.

Thank you all. I am grateful to find this group.

[research_prof]

I have a 25% Extension and a 75% Research appointment (no TEACHING). Extension means working with community and the public and transferring my research on the ground to the citizens!

I have started interacting with faculty on main campus. I LOVE this position but I feel I amnot on a good spot! I am an interdisciplinary faculty and my appointment supposed to be a joint appointment with another department (department A). But when my department formed the search committee they didnot invite department A in the search process and they got mad and didnot give me a joint appointment. I should say that my background fits 80% with Department A and I currently have 2 Ph.D. students with Department A program. The problem is I donot get the credits while spending a lot of time, energy, and $$$$ to work with Ph.D. students.

Thank you all. I am grateful to find this group.

So you think that you will get credits if the students were directly under your department's PhD program? Just to let you know, I officially supervise 2 PhD students and I cannot even claim 1 workload hour based on that.

I am not sure what else "credit" might mean in this case. The students help you with your research, so the credit will be that you will get publications and submit grants based on the work they do. Look, I made the mistake to accept a position at an R2 university and I have been here for a year. I have done more during the previous academic year than people that go up for tenure. I have brought in more grants than the majority of tenured faculty. Do you think that's reasonable? I am all about research having been published at several premier venues in my field since I joined this place... But since here they do not know how to do research, nobody cares... I have no one to look up to... If you were in this position, then it would make sense to apply and try to move to an R1--as I plan to do this year. You are at an R1, stop complaining because there can be way worse situations than that.

[polly_mer]

Yes, apply out for positions you'd rather have.

Make the best of what you have right now because getting another position can take a couple years and you need to keep up documented professional progress to remain viable for the jobs you want.

You are at an R1, stop complaining because there can be way worse situations than that.

That's like insisting that people should never leave a romantic partner because it's always better to be partnered.  Sometimes, it is a bad fit and people should move on so better fits can be made all around.

[Vid]

Thank you, all. I am grateful for these directions. will do my best. Thanks again.

[research_prof]

Yes, apply out for positions you'd rather have.

Make the best of what you have right now because getting another position can take a couple years and you need to keep up documented professional progress to remain viable for the jobs you want.

You are at an R1, stop complaining because there can be way worse situations than that.

That's like insisting that people should never leave a romantic partner because it's always better to be partnered.  Sometimes, it is a bad fit and people should move on so better fits can be made all around.

@polly, yes and no. What if you move and then you realize that your new workplace is even worse than the previous one? Do you move again? You know that this is not sustainable in academia and it is viewed as a red flag by search committees. Also, in a year that interviews and "campus visits" will be held remotely, it will be especially hard to get a feeling of a new place and see if it is really a good fit for you.

As I said, I am on the job market this year and I have thought about all these things already. So yes, being at an R1 during this period of time is a great opportunity and people should not stress too much about it. When things are back to some sort of normality (I guess starting fall 2021) then it might be a good time to move.

[Hibush]

A lot of LGU faculty with Extension roles came to them without prior experience. This is a skillset you can learn. Most who do it find Extension  really rewarding.

One reward is that you make a meaningful, documentable positive impact on society.

Adult learners are different, so the pedagogical techniques are different from undergraduates. (Some CCs with older students will have more commonalities.)

You don't have to grade any papers, for instance.

People participate in extension because the really want to know the stuff you have to offer. They come with the test in hand, if you will, drawn from their life and work. They never ask "will this be on the test?"

The diversity of the audience means the programming has to be built differently. Some will have decades of professional experience in your topic, others none. Some will have a PhD in your topic, others left school at 18. But all want to do better through the material you are offering.

Doing good extension means having strong networks both in the research community and in the practitioner community. It sounds like your office location might be helpful for the latter. However,with a 75% research appointment, a lab on the main campus is essential for contacts and productivity. I'd work with your department chair and the university's Extension Director to come up with the locally persuasive rationale for getting you that space.

[Ruralguy]

Is the position tenure track?  It sounds a lot like the soft money positions some government labs negotiate with local universities.

I don't suppose that's relevant for liking it or not liking, but it might be very relevant for whether it's worthwhile to stay.

In any case I agree that a bad fit is a bad fit. People make those work, but you might as well look for other things.

[polly_mer]

Yes, apply out for positions you'd rather have.

Make the best of what you have right now because getting another position can take a couple years and you need to keep up documented professional progress to remain viable for the jobs you want.

You are at an R1, stop complaining because there can be way worse situations than that.

That's like insisting that people should never leave a romantic partner because it's always better to be partnered.  Sometimes, it is a bad fit and people should move on so better fits can be made all around.

@polly, yes and no. What if you move and then you realize that your new workplace is even worse than the previous one? Do you move again? You know that this is not sustainable in academia and it is viewed as a red flag by search committees. Also, in a year that interviews and "campus visits" will be held remotely, it will be especially hard to get a feeling of a new place and see if it is really a good fit for you.

As I said, I am on the job market this year and I have thought about all these things already. So yes, being at an R1 during this period of time is a great opportunity and people should not stress too much about it. When things are back to some sort of normality (I guess starting fall 2021) then it might be a good time to move.

We can say the same for your situation: you have a TT position when so many don't; stop complaining because so many have it worse.

People who aren't in great fits should make the best of their situations while they continue to do selective job searches.  After all, when the people at the R1s move, they leave open an R1 slot.  If no one leaves an R1 job, then fewer R1 jobs are open for those who want them, especially during a time when expansion through new jobs is essentially frozen.

No one should ever wait 'until X in the outside world is better' to be on the job market, especially when it's clear the individual needs a different job.  People shouldn't quit a stable job without another lined up, but people absolutely should be job searching.

The OP should be on the job market for exactly the same reasons you are.  People move all the time and it's only a problem when it's a pattern of leaving very good jobs that are similar to the offered jobs.  There is no problem in trying out different types of jobs with the same title.

[spork]

A lot of LGU faculty with Extension roles came to them without prior experience. This is a skillset you can learn. Most who do it find Extension  really rewarding.

One reward is that you make a meaningful, documentable positive impact on society.

Adult learners are different, so the pedagogical techniques are different from undergraduates. (Some CCs with older students will have more commonalities.)

You don't have to grade any papers, for instance.

People participate in extension because the really want to know the stuff you have to offer. They come with the test in hand, if you will, drawn from their life and work. They never ask "will this be on the test?"

The diversity of the audience means the programming has to be built differently. Some will have decades of professional experience in your topic, others none. Some will have a PhD in your topic, others left school at 18. But all want to do better through the material you are offering.

Doing good extension means having strong networks both in the research community and in the practitioner community. It sounds like your office location might be helpful for the latter. However,with a 75% research appointment, a lab on the main campus is essential for contacts and productivity. I'd work with your department chair and the university's Extension Director to come up with the locally persuasive rationale for getting you that space.

I'm confused. What kind of extension are we talking about? The OP says he misses teaching. It sounds like he's doing something like ag extension, not continuing ed.

[Hibush]

A lot of LGU faculty with Extension roles came to them without prior experience. This is a skillset you can learn. Most who do it find Extension  really rewarding.

One reward is that you make a meaningful, documentable positive impact on society.

Adult learners are different, so the pedagogical techniques are different from undergraduates. (Some CCs with older students will have more commonalities.)

You don't have to grade any papers, for instance.

People participate in extension because the really want to know the stuff you have to offer. They come with the test in hand, if you will, drawn from their life and work. They never ask "will this be on the test?"

The diversity of the audience means the programming has to be built differently. Some will have decades of professional experience in your topic, others none. Some will have a PhD in your topic, others left school at 18. But all want to do better through the material you are offering.

Doing good extension means having strong networks both in the research community and in the practitioner community. It sounds like your office location might be helpful for the latter. However,with a 75% research appointment, a lab on the main campus is essential for contacts and productivity. I'd work with your department chair and the university's Extension Director to come up with the locally persuasive rationale for getting you that space.

I'm confused. What kind of extension are we talking about? The OP says he misses teaching. It sounds like he's doing something like ag extension, not continuing ed.

Extension stakeholders are usually adults, often professionals in their field. There is a fair bit in agriculture, because that is where it began. But it is pretty broad now.

One area with great need is nutrition education, and it is mostly met thorough Extension rather than social services or healthcare providers.. There are people teaching new parents, usually, how to figure out what is a nutritious diet, and then how to make that happen in their household. The curriculum for that is developed by university faculty as part of their extension role.

The format is rarely course-based like continuing education.

[Vid]

A lot of LGU faculty with Extension roles came to them without prior experience. This is a skillset you can learn. Most who do it find Extension  really rewarding.

One reward is that you make a meaningful, documentable positive impact on society.

Adult learners are different, so the pedagogical techniques are different from undergraduates. (Some CCs with older students will have more commonalities.)

You don't have to grade any papers, for instance.

People participate in extension because the really want to know the stuff you have to offer. They come with the test in hand, if you will, drawn from their life and work. They never ask "will this be on the test?"

The diversity of the audience means the programming has to be built differently. Some will have decades of professional experience in your topic, others none. Some will have a PhD in your topic, others left school at 18. But all want to do better through the material you are offering.

Doing good extension means having strong networks both in the research community and in the practitioner community. It sounds like your office location might be helpful for the latter. However,with a 75% research appointment, a lab on the main campus is essential for contacts and productivity. I'd work with your department chair and the university's Extension Director to come up with the locally persuasive rationale for getting you that space.

I discussed the need of having a lab on campus with my department chair several times, but he always says we provided you a startup package to establish your lab in the extension center. there is no faculty and no infrastructure in place in that extension site. even there is not enough office supply there and I have to get my supply from Amazon or Walmart! the chair isnot supportive of this bc most of faculty at my department have extension and teaching appointments and they really don't care about research much. would you recommend institutional hierarchy (talking to the dean)? Thank you.