Asshole University Policy: Shutting students out of the LMS until they pay

[FishProf]

That's true too. Maybe the administration is bending over backwards to accommodate the students in trouble. They don't share anything with the faculty and they don't give any advice to the faculty about how to respond to student requests for special treatment.

I entirely concur with the preceding sentiment.

At my school, we are encouraged to "work with the students". W(hatever)TF that means.

[polly_mer]

If the institution really cared, then it would be a work college or some similar situation where sizable fractions of students wouldn't still be sorting out financial well into the term.  Being admitted to a work college or similar situation means a student's direct expenses are covered by the institution and that's why admission is strictly limited to what the institution can afford to cover in a given term.

This one-month situation raises a serious red flag regarding the institution's finances.  Disenrolling in the first week for non-payment or lack of the down payment for a payment plan protects the student and the institution.  Letting students rack up tuition bills the students have no means to pay indicates an institutional need for funds that borders on desperate.

I'm familiar with having emergency microgrants for students who end up needing living expenses during the term, but not just letting the tuition bill drag on.  There was a brief discussion on Dire Financial Straits months ago about a college that had substantial money owed to it by students and how such a situation came to be.

From my time working with transfer students, I'm used to people owing a couple hundred dollars in fees to a previous institution that refuses to send transcripts.  I have not encountered owing an entire term's tuition.

[mythbuster]

My uni is in a town with multiple major military bases in an easy commiting distance. So we have LOTS of students on the G I Bill and other forms of military aide. Up until about two years ago, they would all get dropped at the end of week two or three for just this red tape issue. Then we were nominated for some national award for being Veteran Friendly, and it all magically fixed itself. It think the admins realized that having all the Veteran students griping about the Financial Aid Kabuki every semester was not a good look, or possibly this issue put that national award in doubt. So these things can be resolved, if there is the right incentive.

[Zeus Bird]

That's true too. Maybe the administration is bending over backwards to accommodate the students in trouble. They don't share anything with the faculty and they don't give any advice to the faculty about how to respond to student requests for special treatment.

I entirely concur with the preceding sentiment.

At my school, we are encouraged to "work with the students". W(hatever)TF that means.

We're encouraged to do that at my school too.  It means that administrators are winking at us to inflate grades while we take on more of the trappings of a for-profit university

[kaysixteen]

Indeed, I recall waiting for several weeks after the start of semesters in the 80s and 90s, before financial aid came through, and neither school ever gave any thought to cutting me off, or others like me.   And in the unique pandemic conditions of the current semester, this seems to be just awful behavior, and even worse optics.  Heck, the IRS is very behind at issuing this year' s tax refunds, esp to those like myself who did not file taxes electronically (I took advantage of the covid filing extension and did not file until about a week before the extended July 15th deadline, and am still waiting for my money).

[financeguy]

Their own fault. I've been in collections at a bank before. No sympathy. Especially when you see the student has an iPhone, new car, other useless crap they don't need. Not paying debts is a moral flaw similar to failing to meet any other agreed upon commitment. Deadbeats are not victims, they just make things more difficult for everyone else.

[polly_mer]

Their own fault. I've been in collections at a bank before. No sympathy. Especially when you see the student has an iPhone, new car, other useless crap they don't need. Not paying debts is a moral flaw similar to failing to meet any other agreed upon commitment. Deadbeats are not victims, they just make things more difficult for everyone else.

I don't know that I've been anywhere that students had the indications of money and were not paying their tuition bills in large numbers.  Instead, I've spent a lot of time at institutions and in organizations where students were hoping that a college degree would finally give them some stability in their lives as a middle-class indicator, but didn't always choose wisely for paths that really would lead to a middle-class life.

I've spent far more time with people who really should have been on the N-year plan of part-time attendance while working full-time instead of desperately hoping that nothing would go awry this semester, again, for the Jth semester in a row with a complicated, precarious situation where everything had to go perfectly.

[downer]

If you want to blame people for having financial troubles, well, that seems like an asshole stance too.

People do make poor choices and I think that some of these students would be better off at a state school that charged less.

But remember that schools like this are not just trying to provide a public service for the community. They are actively promoting themselves and selling a product. They are busy recruiting students and encouraging them to apply for financial aid. But they are not transparent at the outset about how they will treat the students when there are delays with the expected aid.

[Caracal]

Their own fault. I've been in collections at a bank before. No sympathy. Especially when you see the student has an iPhone, new car, other useless crap they don't need. Not paying debts is a moral flaw similar to failing to meet any other agreed upon commitment. Deadbeats are not victims, they just make things more difficult for everyone else.

This gives me the image of students nearly running over finance guy in their new cars as they toss money out the back. I have never known anything about what kind of car my students drive. Also, I hate to tell you this, but unless you have a new generation iPhone, it isn't exactly a symbol of wealth. People need smartphones. And, I agree with Poly. Something has gone really wrong if students actually owe back payments to the school on tuition.

[Ruralguy]

Keep in mind that many students have a complex web of loans, scholarships (some from school and some from outside organizations), work study and direct payments by themselves and/or parents. Sometimes the student just is not responsible for the fact that some federal payment (or whatever) didn't come in on time.

I would lean towards cutting them some breaks. But at some point, letting them attend (and get LMS accesss, etc.)  when there's been no good faith effort to pay up , really has to end. This is probably exactly what is happening a month  or more in---finanical aid and a Dean of Students (or whatever the heck they are called now) have a pow-wow, and conclude that Suki or Sasha have no intention of continuing to make good on payments.

[Caracal]

I would lean towards cutting them some breaks. But at some point, letting them attend (and get LMS accesss, etc.)  when there's been no good faith effort to pay up , really has to end. This is probably exactly what is happening a month  or more in---finanical aid and a Dean of Students (or whatever the heck they are called now) have a pow-wow, and conclude that Suki or Sasha have no intention of continuing to make good on payments.

Probably, but then they should just have a very clear policy about what that means for faculty. If you just tell instructors that since the student isn't enrolled they can't send them material or allow them to participate in the class, then faculty members can express their sympathies, but also tell the student they really aren't allowed to do anything until the student gets things straightened out.

[the_geneticist]

Here, we can manually add "users" to Blackboard that are registered for the class.  I wouldn't want to have to do that for a huge number of students, but it could cover the occasional student that gets caught up in financial aid issues.

[fishbrains]

It's odd given how many statements the university issues of solidarity with students from populations who generally have those difficulties, and how often the university tells that the faculty should be sensitive to the difficult situations of students in difficult times. It's almost as if those statements were just for show.

I am always shocked and appalled when the cynicism within a post matches my own.

[financeguy]

One of the discussion area questions in one of my classes is what should or should not prevent someone from being licensed in my field. Of course everyone agrees on the "biggies." No one is arguing for murderers or those with embezzlement convictions to be in the profession, but the pot starts to get stirred every term regarding the policy on needing to petition to be licensed if the person has filed for bankruptcy. (2 BKs at any point in life is an automatic no.)

The responses could not vary more widely and range anywhere from "None of anyone's business what someone else's finances are. These are strategic rather than moral decisions." all the way to "People who don't pay their debts are thieves and should be incarcerated just like someone who takes the actual physical item."

I think the breaking point for many such as myself was 2008. Those of us who lived in an apartment rather than getting an 800k loan we could not afford resented the idea that we should bail out some deadbeat who did do this or the corporation stupid enough to let him. The idea that some people go through their entire lives just ignoring bills until they can't and the service is cut off is a foreign concept and not a situation likely to led to sympathy.

[jimbogumbo]

One of the discussion area questions in one of my classes is what should or should not prevent someone from being licensed in my field. Of course everyone agrees on the "biggies." No one is arguing for murderers or those with embezzlement convictions to be in the profession, but the pot starts to get stirred every term regarding the policy on needing to petition to be licensed if the person has filed for bankruptcy. (2 BKs at any point in life is an automatic no.)

The responses could not vary more widely and range anywhere from "None of anyone's business what someone else's finances are. These are strategic rather than moral decisions." all the way to "People who don't pay their debts are thieves and should be incarcerated just like someone who takes the actual physical item."

I think the breaking point for many such as myself was 2008. Those of us who lived in an apartment rather than getting an 800k loan we could not afford resented the idea that we should bail out some deadbeat who did do this or the corporation stupid enough to let him. The idea that some people go through their entire lives just ignoring bills until they can't and the service is cut off is a foreign concept and not a situation likely to led to sympathy.

So how do you feel about business bankruptcy? And, would your field license someone who had, for example, seven business bankruptcies?