Personal Pronouns / First Names

[revert79]

Hi!

Who has some tips to share about remebering non-obvious and constantly fluctuating personal pronouns in the classroom?  How about first names that change a few times during the course of the semester?  I have only flubbed the pronoun or name a few times, but it is excruciating and I hope to never do it again. The main problem for me comes when the gendered presentation is at odds with the preferred pronoun.  For example, a biological female who presents in a very feminine manner (makeup, shaven legs, fluffy dresses, etc) but prefers "he/his".  This is cognitive disonance for me, like it is to read out loud the word "red" printed in green ink.  Also with names, I get so used to associating people with the name I first learned, it is a wicked challenge to not slip up and thus offend.  Any suggestions will be much appreciated by me and my increasingly fluid students!

[greyscale]

Not a tip on remembering per se, but a general tip I've heard from several trans friends:

When you catch yourself in a mistake, just keep it simple, acknowledge and move on. It will be worse all around if you dwell on it, even if to apologize profusely and sincerely. Avoid defensiveness, excuses, or anything that makes it about yourself.

Probably we all know to do this already but I always appreciate the reminder - I trip over my tongue trying to apologize too much.

Just do your best and come into it with an open and accepting attitude and you're unlikely to cause hurt.

[AvidReader]

Also with names, I get so used to associating people with the name I first learned, it is a wicked challenge to not slip up and thus offend.

Oh, my! Yes! I work hard in the first week of class to learn names, and then they are set. My challenges are mostly students who say things like, "You can call me either Ben, or Benjamin." I am bad with names, so I need a specific one. I usually say, "Tell me which one you'd prefer, because that will be your name in my head for the rest of the semester." I've never had a student change names in the middle, but it would really throw me.

AR.

[ergative]

I have a non-binary student who changed since I first met them, or perhaps simply found the opportunity to tell me that they use 'they' pronouns after I spent a year calling them something different. I've found that I've managed to train myself to think ahead about pronouns to avoid making mistakes. It helps that the student has been very gracious with me when I goof up. I've since met another 'they'-using post-doc, and it was a lot easier with multiple people who use those pronouns. It will get easier with practice.

An unexpected consequence is that now I find I'm constantly doing a little double-check in my head when I use other people's pronouns, asking myself if I'm sure that 'she' really is the correct pronoun for a female colleague who would never have occasioned a moment's doubt before. On the whole, I think it's good: it doesn't do any harm to remind myself that I need to check my assumptions before I speak.

[downer]

I tend to use they for all students and faculty.

I still use first names. If there was a better gender neutral term than Mx I might start using last names.

[revert79]

These are good points...I like the reminder to be aware of assumptions and biases.  I teach in an art school, and in this environment, gender tends to be an ever-shifting variable, among probably 40% of the students, and changes frequently for each individual.  Maybe what I need to do is just talk more slowly so my brain has a chance to catch up with my mouth.  This could benefit me in all areas!

[Caracal]

I tend to use they for all students and faculty.

I still use first names. If there was a better gender neutral term than Mx I might start using last names.

Honestly, I don't really use pronouns much anyway in class. For whatever reason, I'm just not really likely to say "that's a good point that he made." I do use names when I get to the point in the semester when I know them. I've only had one student who transitioned and asked me to make sure I used the preferred name and pronoun. Frankly, in that case it actually helped me to remember the name early on.

[ProfMeow]

I'm really bad with names, so I tend to talk to students rather than about them -- I might say "as you said," turning and nodding to whoever it was, for example.  Then I don't have to worry about genders either.

On the other hand, I teach gendered foreign languages where not just the pronouns but the adjectives must agree.  I had a student once who preferred "they"-series pronouns in English.  When I asked "what gender are you in this language?" the student was hopelessly confused -- had never thought about it! -- and ended up dropping the class (for a variety of reasons but this may have been part of it).  It's much easier to respect genders in English!

And am I the only one left who thinks singular "they" is grammatically barbaric?  Can't we settle on ze/zir/zis or any of the other neologisms?

[Parasaurolophus]

And am I the only one left who thinks singular "they" is grammatically barbaric?  Can't we settle on ze/zir/zis or any of the other neologisms?

I used to, but I've come around. It's easy and relatively natural to use. I actually prefer some of the neologisms (ve/ver/vis/verself!), but their use just isn't consistent and widespread enough, and too many people complain about them/have no idea what's going on.

[polly_mer]

And am I the only one left who thinks singular "they" is grammatically barbaric?  Can't we settle on ze/zir/zis or any of the other neologisms?

I used to, but I've come around. It's easy and relatively natural to use. I actually prefer some of the neologisms (ve/ver/vis/verself!), but their use just isn't consistent and widespread enough, and too many people complain about them/have no idea what's going on.

I can manage with he/she/they.  If people want other pronouns, then I need a laminated card that I can carry with someone's name and a picture next to their preferences because I'm bad at names and I'm bad at details.

[mamselle]

Do not start with the "hu" again....I know there will be conflict, and I'm conflict-averse...

;--}

M.

[polly_mer]

Do not start with the "hu" again....I know there will be conflict, and I'm conflict-averse...

;--}

M.

Maybe that's what we need to summon LarryC to join us: hu, Hu, HU!

[youllneverwalkalone]

The main problem for me comes when the gendered presentation is at odds with the preferred pronoun.  For example, a biological female who presents in a very feminine manner (makeup, shaven legs, fluffy dresses, etc) but prefers "he/his".  This is cognitive disonance for me, like it is to read out loud the word "red" printed in green ink.

Totally naive question - how common is this sort of occurrence? I am in Europe and in my teaching experience (+10 years) it has never happened to me.

[polly_mer]

The main problem for me comes when the gendered presentation is at odds with the preferred pronoun.  For example, a biological female who presents in a very feminine manner (makeup, shaven legs, fluffy dresses, etc) but prefers "he/his".  This is cognitive disonance for me, like it is to read out loud the word "red" printed in green ink.

Totally naive question - how common is this sort of occurrence? I am in Europe and in my teaching experience (+10 years) it has never happened to me.

This is really place dependent.  I would expect to encounter that situation much more frequently at University of Wisconsin Madison or University of California Berkeley than at, say, Colorado School of Mines or Texas Tech due to the different social norms.  The UW-M community is known for being much more open to a huge range of individual identity expressions in ways that other places are not.  Thus, people who want that kind of environment are much more likely to enroll in that kind of environment.

I am a mother, but I also spend most of my time now as a jeans-clad, no make-up engineer in an environment that is at most about 10% women.  I don't blink at all at being called sir or referred to as he nor do most of my colleagues who similarly are mothers (or could be) who also wear the daily uniform of jeans after coming up through an engineering program.  I'm not going to insist on any pronoun because that's more trouble than it's worth to my daily life.  I do, however, correct every single person who calls me Ms. instead of Dr.  Dr. means I belong to the technical staff; Ms. means someone is identifying me as a secretary or other non-technical person.

[writingprof]

The main problem for me comes when the gendered presentation is at odds with the preferred pronoun.  For example, a biological female who presents in a very feminine manner (makeup, shaven legs, fluffy dresses, etc) but prefers "he/his".  This is cognitive disonance for me, like it is to read out loud the word "red" printed in green ink.

Totally naive question - how common is this sort of occurrence? I am in Europe and in my teaching experience (+10 years) it has never happened to me.

It's never happened to me, either, nor to anyone I know personally.  I'm not going to participate in pronoun foolishness in any case, and (for now at least) I'm in a situation where my superiors would back me up.