Personal Pronouns / First Names

[spork]

[. . . ]

For example, a biological female who presents in a very feminine manner (makeup, shaven legs, fluffy dresses, etc) but prefers "he/his". 

[. . . ]

and my increasingly fluid students!

I think much of this is simply the fad du jour. Today it's pronouns. Fifty years ago the college set thought it fashionable to flout norms about hair length.

In the classroom I use first names, whatever is on the official roster. If a student says on the first day of class that she prefers Katie to Katherine, ok, got it, I make a note on my list.

Note that I used "she" in that last sentence. If someone who appears female is named Bob or Steve, whatever, I don't care, I regularly get male and female Danas, Jordans, and Leslies. If someone says "I'm Steve now" when last week the name was Sara, then I would (this situation hasn't happened to me as of yet) tell the student "I'll try to remember, but your name is Sara on the roster and it's been Sara for two months now, so don't be surprised if I flub it."

Gender identity is really low on my list of priorities in terms of what I teach and how I teach. Ethnicity, nationality, that sort of thing connects much more directly to my subject material, so I focus on that. For example, since I often get students from different countries with wildly different cultures, I mention at the beginning that I often engage in American habits like pointing at people.

Also, look how many comments this IHE article got:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/19/divide-over-scholarly-debate-over-gender-identity-rages .

I wonder how many of those who commented work at institutions with enrollment problems or who teach courses on nothing but gender identity issues.

[pepsi_alum]

For the record,most of us have no problem making adjustments to cisgender people's names. If your cisgender student Jane Doe got married mid-semester and legally assumed her partner's surname of Rodriguez, I would hope that you would take the time to learn that she's now "Jane Rodriguez." If your cisgender doctoral student Jason Smith successfully defended his dissertation mid-semester, and you happen to be very formal in your lab, I hope you would start calling him "Dr. Smith" instead of "Mr. Smith." I don't see why it should be any different for trans or genderqueer students. I acknowledge that it can be confusing to remember pronouns like the singular "they/them," but really, what do you have to lose by trying to show respect to students?

Even if you do have philosophical objections to pronoun usage, how much does it really come up for you? Even though I make an effort to learn student pronouns, I find that I rarely have to use such knowledge in lecture-oriented classes. I'm much more likely to say "Does anyone want to respond to Jane's comment?" than I am "Does anyone want to respond to her comment?"

[downer]

...

Gender identity is really low on my list of priorities in terms of what I teach and how I teach. Ethnicity, nationality, that sort of thing connects much more directly to my subject material, so I focus on that. For example, since I often get students from different countries with wildly different cultures, I mention at the beginning that I often engage in American habits like pointing at people.

Also, look how many comments this IHE article got:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/19/divide-over-scholarly-debate-over-gender-identity-rages .

I wonder how many of those who commented work at institutions with enrollment problems or who teach courses on nothing but gender identity issues.

The more general issue of trans identity and trans rights seem to be increasingly dominating discussion in many areas, so it's becoming an issue that is almost impossible to not take a position on. Fortunately, few of us ever split up the classroom into male and female sections, so we never have to decide which students belong in which sections. But it will be an increasing issue in college sports, deciding which students are to count as being able to compete in women's teams and individual events. Definitely these issues are more prominent at some schools, and can be largely ignored at others, as was the case not long ago with sexual harassment issues. But these days just about every school has to make at least some cursory gesture at making sure faculty and staff are sensitized to concerns about sexual harassment, and some places make a huge deal about it. There's a fair chance that the same will happen for interacting with gender fluid/trans students.

[youllneverwalkalone]

...

Gender identity is really low on my list of priorities in terms of what I teach and how I teach. Ethnicity, nationality, that sort of thing connects much more directly to my subject material, so I focus on that. For example, since I often get students from different countries with wildly different cultures, I mention at the beginning that I often engage in American habits like pointing at people.

Also, look how many comments this IHE article got:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/19/divide-over-scholarly-debate-over-gender-identity-rages .

I wonder how many of those who commented work at institutions with enrollment problems or who teach courses on nothing but gender identity issues.

The more general issue of trans identity and trans rights seem to be increasingly dominating discussion in many areas, so it's becoming an issue that is almost impossible to not take a position on. Fortunately, few of us ever split up the classroom into male and female sections, so we never have to decide which students belong in which sections. But it will be an increasing issue in college sports, deciding which students are to count as being able to compete in women's teams and individual events. Definitely these issues are more prominent at some schools, and can be largely ignored at others, as was the case not long ago with sexual harassment issues. But these days just about every school has to make at least some cursory gesture at making sure faculty and staff are sensitized to concerns about sexual harassment, and some places make a huge deal about it. There's a fair chance that the same will happen for interacting with gender fluid/trans students.

I wonder how many gender fluid/trans students you guys are in contact with. I have had none in over 10 years of teaching experience in higher had. Your experience must be incredibly different from mine if this thread got so many replies.

If I ever had one such student, I think that I would have no problem addressing them however they want to as a matter of common courtesy. Empathy alone would suffice, I don't really care for some made-up language rules.

[spork]

[. . . ]

There's a fair chance that the same will happen for interacting with gender fluid/trans students.

I wonder how many gender fluid/trans students you guys are in contact with. I have had none in over 10 years of teaching experience in higher had. Your experience must be incredibly different from mine if this thread got so many replies.

If I ever had one such student, I think that I would have no problem addressing them however they want to as a matter of common courtesy. Empathy alone would suffice, I don't really care for some made-up language rules.

Ding! I think we have a winner. I don't really care about my students' sex lives, chromosomal patterns, or gender. If a student has some kind of academic problem that relates to these aspects of life, then I can listen and take appropriate action. But in the end we're all going to be replaced by gender-less robots anyway.

[downer]

How many students have you been wanting to sexually harass in the last 10 years? None?

There is a good chance you still have had to go through some kind of training to avoid doing it.

[revert79]

Granted, I haven't read all the replies in this thread.

An easy fix is tent cards at the beginning of the semester.  I ask students to put the name they would like to be referred to and their preferred pronouns.  I then collect them at the end of each class session.  I hand them out, testing my memory, at the five minutes before the start of each subsequent class session.

This serves multiple purposes:  students are able to identify themselves any way they want.  If they want to change their names/pronouns mid terms, they update their cards--and usually they say that they are going to.  It helps me remember their names and pronouns, and if they change, I get fair warning without soliciting it. 

I have been able to learn the names of 100+ students per term with this approach.  It creates an environment of mutual respect and collegiality.

Thanks for this simple and helpful suggestion!  I feel like it would be really helpful for memorizing names and pronouns in a way that would allow eventual flexibility when they change...I could use the cards like I would use flash cards to learn a language.  I have found that acknowledging the fact that I sometimes forget names has made it less embarrassing when I also forget a non-standard pronoun.

As an instructor in an art school, some of the other posters' experience is foreign to me.  I can't imagine having fewer than 10 trans students per semester, and it's usually more.  But I totally agree with those who say that common courtesy and manners, in the form of using the requested form of address, apply across the entire spectrum of human interaction.  It doesn't need to be ideological.  But it can still test one's memory in a potentially challenging way, no matter what your private opinion is.

[youllneverwalkalone]

How many students have you been wanting to sexually harass in the last 10 years? None?

There is a good chance you still have had to go through some kind of training to avoid doing it.

Are personal pronouns-related issues as frequent as those related to sexual harassment? I'd be very surprised if they were even remotely in the same order of magnitude. 

[Caracal]

How many students have you been wanting to sexually harass in the last 10 years? None?

There is a good chance you still have had to go through some kind of training to avoid doing it.

The problem is that some people clearly do want to sexually harass students. You're right that this isn't hard. You see this all the time with people wanting to pretend that there's some complicated code to avoid being a creep. Actually if you just try to be a good person and think of other people as humans, you'll be fine.

Same basic idea here. Call people by the names they prefer because it is good manners. Nobody is asking you to endorse some political view, or idea about gender and if you bring these things up in response a really basic and reasonable request than you're the jerk.

[downer]

How many students have you been wanting to sexually harass in the last 10 years? None?

There is a good chance you still have had to go through some kind of training to avoid doing it.

Are personal pronouns-related issues as frequent as those related to sexual harassment? I'd be very surprised if they were even remotely in the same order of magnitude.

I have had a few gender non-conforming students in my classes. I've never had any harassment. So in my experience the frequency of pronouns issues is much greater.

Also, the number of gender non-conforming students is sky-rocketing according to some press reports. Maybe it is a fad. Hard to say. Some people thought that women doing men's jobs in the 1950s was a fad. Gender and sexuality issues just seem to keep on keeping on.

[polly_mer]

They are connected in my mind as categories for which an individual can state their preference, but really aren't under the individual's control to enforce how other people categorize based on observable features.  For example, I had an interesting encounter recently with a student who asked how he could support the underrepresented people in our field.  This student was very earnest in his desire to help a specific group member feel comfortable in the field.  I managed to not state what I was thinking along the lines of "you are a traditional age, recent BS graduate who checks more boxes in any combination of underrepresented/at risk/non-standard observed behavioral norms than that individual.  What makes you think you are in a position to help and that the individual needs your help?"

Okay. I R confused.

Are you saying that because this person had more "boxes to check" he was, by definition, unable to be of support to someone who had fewer of these "boxes to check?"

Like it's a score or something? And whomever has more/fewer "points" can't be aware of someone else's sensitivities?

No, I'm saying it was disconcerting to me how eagerly this person was riding to the rescue of someone who didn't need rescuing.  I know both of these people.  One comes from a privileged background including excellent schooling with mentors who have been heavily invested every step of the way, is recognized as a leader in many activities, and speaks English as a native.  One has had a more heartwarming journey as someone from a small foreign country where English is not a primary language and their family continues to live in the traditional way; that family is applying pressure to go home now to marry and raise children with the spouse their family has chosen for them.  This person still struggles with many cultural differences.

Sure, we can and should be supportive of each other.  However, put your own oxygen mask on first applies in cases outside of the airplane.  Being a woman is not such a huge disadvantage that it outweighs all other considerations.  That's really, really offensive to me.

[youllneverwalkalone]

How many students have you been wanting to sexually harass in the last 10 years? None?

There is a good chance you still have had to go through some kind of training to avoid doing it.

Are personal pronouns-related issues as frequent as those related to sexual harassment? I'd be very surprised if they were even remotely in the same order of magnitude.

I have had a few gender non-conforming students in my classes. I've never had any harassment. So in my experience the frequency of pronouns issues is much greater.

Also, the number of gender non-conforming students is sky-rocketing according to some press reports. Maybe it is a fad. Hard to say. Some people thought that women doing men's jobs in the 1950s was a fad. Gender and sexuality issues just seem to keep on keeping on.

Press reports often cover extreme outliers, and personal experience isn't necessarily a good starting point either (e.g., you would not know if some of the students are being harassed unless you are the perpetrator or if the news had somehow reached you). Having "gender non-conforming students" in class doesn't imply there are going to be any problem. What is relevant in this context, at least to my understanding, are cases where teachers refuse to refer a student with their preferred pronouns.

I was a bit curious so I started googling around. According to this (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf), almost 14% of undergraduate women had been victims of at least one completed sexual assault since entering college. I can't believe the % of student population who has problems related to gender-pronouns is anywhere near that figure (not to mention these two things are not in the same ballpark when it comes to seriousness either).

[downer]

Right, but the assaulting is mostly done by other students. Most of it is related to being drunk or high. (There are also debates over definitions of assault, and the statistics are very sensitive to those definitions. But anyway... ) The relevant comparison for us is how much do faculty need training/education/sensitization about these issues. I maintain that faculty are more likely to have to puzzle over how to react to gender non-conforming students than they are about how to proceed without sexually harassing a student.

As for seriousness, it seems that universities can get sued if faculty don't respect student pronouns, and employers can get fined in some places. There are reports of professors being punished.

[marshwiggle]

The relevant comparison for us is how much do faculty need training/education/sensitization about these issues. I maintain that faculty are more likely to have to puzzle over how to react to gender non-conforming students than they are about how to proceed without sexually harassing a student.

This is backwards; if one simply chooses to "react" to a gender-nonconforming student by only referring to the student by the student's name when speaking to a third party, then that is completely safe. There is no equally clear prescription to avoid any possible claim of sexual harassment, since it could be made on the basis of speech, gesture, gaze, or almost anything else.

[Caracal]

The relevant comparison for us is how much do faculty need training/education/sensitization about these issues. I maintain that faculty are more likely to have to puzzle over how to react to gender non-conforming students than they are about how to proceed without sexually harassing a student.

This is backwards; if one simply chooses to "react" to a gender-nonconforming student by only referring to the student by the student's name when speaking to a third party, then that is completely safe. There is no equally clear prescription to avoid any possible claim of sexual harassment, since it could be made on the basis of speech, gesture, gaze, or almost anything else.

This is nonsense. Sure, somebody can make a baseless claim of sexual harassment, just like they could make a baseless claim about anything else, but there just isn't some epidemic of people being baselessly accused of sexual harassment. If a student accused you of sexual harassment solely based on them thinking you looked at them in an untoward way, and there was no corroborating evidence, or a pattern of bad behavior, there is almost no way that complaint would be sustained. If it was, you'd have a hell of a lawsuit. Furthermore, a student is highly unlikely to make a complaint on this basis.

The way you avoid allegations of sexual harassment is by not commenting on people's bodies, not discussing your sex life or your student's sex lives and not treating your students as potential partners. Is it possible you could do all that and still face a baseless accusation? Sure, but you could also be accused of a murder you didn't commit...