Cross-listing classes

[Ruralguy]

If this is something like "Islam" offered by a Religion Dept. being cross-listed with "History of the Middle East" from a History Dept., then it really seems inappropriate.

At the very least, ask your chair why this is being done, and go from there. If, as some of us suspect, its being done out of necessity, then there may be no real choices (bring in guest lecturers who know more about Topic X?) . If its being done out of...ehem...administrative "cleverness", then work against that, mentioning the sorts of concerns Hibush articulated.

[fishbrains]

My mid-sized community college does this every once in a very long while, but to do so requires going through much paperwork, the Curriculum Sub-Committee, the larger Academic Affairs Committee, and then approval at the system level. And, generally, the first question asked in these committees is "Why the hell would we want to do that?" and then the next question is "Who the hell do we have who's really qualified to teach that?" The requests are sometimes rejected.

I think the last one that passed was a cross-listing for something like "medical terminology" for the medical office management students and "professional terminology" for the EMT program students for reasons I don't remember. Probably some low-enrollment issues on one side.

Anyway, I'm surprised there isn't more of a process involved to ensure you don't run afoul of accreditation concerns.

[Charlotte]

Thanks for the additional thoughts! I brought up my concerns with the chair but they do not share them. I have the impression that they are just concerned with having someone, anyone, teach the class and that is the priority at this time.

[Hibush]

Thanks for the additional thoughts! I brought up my concerns with the chair but they do not share them. I have the impression that they are just concerned with having someone, anyone, teach the class and that is the priority at this time.

Sorry that puts you in a pickle. My prediction is that saying no will cause a modest short-term problem, but that saying yes will result in larger problems.

If you say no, focus on the positive: you will be teaching your class effectively. Don't offer any rationalizations for what you are not doing, because that only invites getting them shot down. Just a general "not appropriate" or "would compromise my primary responsibilities."

[Langue_doc]

Thanks for the additional thoughts! I brought up my concerns with the chair but they do not share them. I have the impression that they are just concerned with having someone, anyone, teach the class and that is the priority at this time.

Sorry that puts you in a pickle. My prediction is that saying no will cause a modest short-term problem, but that saying yes will result in larger problems.

If you say no, focus on the positive: you will be teaching your class effectively. Don't offer any rationalizations for what you are not doing, because that only invites getting them shot down. Just a general "not appropriate" or "would compromise my primary responsibilities."

Are you getting compensated for two courses or one? Cross-listing=one syllabus, therefore one prep.

[Ruralguy]

This may not be entirely correct, Language_Doc.

When my school forces, say FRENCH 400 to meet with same prof at same time and place as FRENCH 300, its explicitly done to compress load. That is, each course is likely to have fewer than 5 people, so they combine them and the prof teaches it sort of tutorial style, but going around the room to subgroups.  The unattended to group works on some sort of assignment and the prof goes to them after a bit and discusses it.  The courses definitely have different syllabi, but the professor is only compensated for one course. I don't think this would ever fly for mashing-up two totally different courses, especially if each had a high enrollment.

[Langue_doc]

This may not be entirely correct, Language_Doc.

When my school forces, say FRENCH 400 to meet with same prof at same time and place as FRENCH 300, its explicitly done to compress load. That is, each course is likely to have fewer than 5 people, so they combine them and the prof teaches it sort of tutorial style, but going around the room to subgroups.  The unattended to group works on some sort of assignment and the prof goes to them after a bit and discusses it.  The courses definitely have different syllabi, but the professor is only compensated for one course. I don't think this would ever fly for mashing-up two totally different courses, especially if each had a high enrollment.

Ruralguy, these are overlapping courses, so the same instructor could teach both as a single course, with some tweaking. I can understand the rationale for combining such courses. The OP is being asked to teach the equivalent of French literature and French linguistics as a single course, with separate readings and assignments for each of the two components.

When I've taught cross-listed courses, these courses would have the usual cap, with students from both departments in the class. The syllabus, readings, and assignments would be the same; the syllabus (and the course schedule) would list the course as BUS100/PSY111 or PSY111/BUS100 (assuming that this is a required psychology course for Business majors).

Good luck, OP.

[ciao_yall]

At our college this happens when classes are similar enough that they can use the same syllabus, be used for the same requirement, and the faculty are qualified to teach in both subject areas. Alternatively, the class can be team-taught with faculty splitting the load.

[mamselle]

I'm assuming this differs in all cases from having two programs that each accept the same course as one to satisfy a majors' distribution.

For example, my U/G school (Ohio State) had courses on "Sociology of Religions" and "Philosophy of Religious Thought."

At the time, as a state school, they had no formal Theology program, but there was a "Pre-The" program, and people were encouraged to take one or both of these courses (as well as the History courses that covered "Early Christian/Late Antique History in the West" and Medieval France, Germany, and England" for example) as they "counted" for the program's course of study overall.

People in Sociology, History, and Philosophy, of course, could also take any 2-. 3- and 400 level courses offered by their own departments, so the Sociology of Religions course might have people doing "Pre-The" (which in those days was understood as having a generic Christian focus, that's probably broadened now) as well as those studying sociology; the Philosophy course might have similar "Pre-The" folks as well as those in a philosophy major, etc.

Cross-listing in those cases was more a "PR" effort--with a title and credit hour note, and a page reference to the home department's full course description in the catalogue--to be sure the class filled by appealing to different segments of the student population for whose majors it might be considered appropriate.

Just another way the term might be meant...

M.

[Ruralguy]

Mamselle-

We don't bother to cross-list in such instances usually. That is, if History 100 meets five possible requirements *as* History 100, then we might as well be clear that it *is* History 100.
Same with requiring calculus (or some other Math) for a few majors.  Its because its calculus that it is required, so why call it Physics 210, "Math for Physics" (unless its *us* teaching our *own* math type course for other reasons, but that's different)?

[Golazo]

I have the impression that they are just concerned with having someone, anyone, teach the class and that is the priority at this time.

Are you just being compensated for one class? If so, just teach intro to swimming well. Find some recommended readings for water to add and occasionally mention "if we were doing a water perspective we might...". But don't kill yourself doing it. You can't teach two courses at the same time.

It sounds like you are at a small LAC or regional that is strapped for cash or perhaps a place that doesn't really care about water. Broke LAC did this with geography classes--economic geography would be cross listed with economic development by an economist, geopolitics cross listed with security studies and taught by a political scientist, physical geography cross listed with geology etc. If so, water is not your problem--the dept agreed to cross list the class