Joseph Epstein/Jill Biden Controversy over Ed.D.

[financeguy]

Definitely separate issues that can be addressed independently. Only overlap if the qualification of the spouse is used to "justify" their desire to dip into the frame. It doesn't have to even be a spouse. If Hunter Biden suddenly starts speaking publicly about some aspect of criminal justice reform and someone says, "Pipe down, no one elected you." the statement that "Hey, he has a Yale Law degree!" will not change that fact.

It will be interesting to see how our new second gentleman is treated by the media/public if he says something controversial publicly that his wife or the administration doesn't agree with. If (theoretically, I seriously doubt he holds ANY of these positions) he were to say he believes gender is a biological fact, that Islam is not "a religion of peace" or that the UN is an ineffective organization, would anyone really accept his statement that he's "Just Doug, a citizen like all of us entitled to his beliefs." I suspect the most ardent feminist would say he should refrain from making those statements not just because they disagree, but for the benefit of his wife's career.

[ergative]

Definitely separate issues that can be addressed independently. Only overlap if the qualification of the spouse is used to "justify" their desire to dip into the frame. It doesn't have to even be a spouse. If Hunter Biden suddenly starts speaking publicly about some aspect of criminal justice reform and someone says, "Pipe down, no one elected you." the statement that "Hey, he has a Yale Law degree!" will not change that fact.

It will be interesting to see how our new second gentleman is treated by the media/public if he says something controversial publicly that his wife or the administration doesn't agree with. If (theoretically, I seriously doubt he holds ANY of these positions) he were to say he believes gender is a biological fact, that Islam is not "a religion of peace" or that the UN is an ineffective organization, would anyone really accept his statement that he's "Just Doug, a citizen like all of us entitled to his beliefs." I suspect the most ardent feminist would say he should refrain from making those statements not just because they disagree, but for the benefit of his wife's career.

I think you've introduce a third, separate issue here: Namely, we should probably separate the role of the first/second spouse as a policy maker from the role of first/second spouse as a public figure with an elevated platform.

I agree that initial spice* probably should not be setting policy, as unelected officials. However, that's different from public messaging. Melania Trump's embrace of anti-bullying initiatives, however ironic and ineffective, is a good example of the sort of thing that initial spice can do.

Once you have that kind of enloudened influence on public debate, it's disingenuous to pretend that you're just a private individual with a right to voice your own opinion. By virtue of your (unelected) position, you're much more than 'just' a private individual. Some of the influential scifi writers I follow on twitter have explicitly addressed the question of what they should and should not tweet about, given that they have 20k, 50k, 100k followers ready to descend upon anyone they call out. They have learned their lesson from Spiderman and taken it to heart. I think it is not unreasonable to expect first and second spouses to pay the same attention to their public statements as people who make their living thinking about how dinosaurs would build spaceships.

It's rather reminiscent of that knotty question that comes up on Reddit's 'Am I the Asshole' page: You might have the legal right to do something, but that doesn't mean you're not an asshole if you exercise that right.


*Sorry, couldn't resist

[mamselle]

Whether spouses should or are qualified to participate in policy decisions is completely distinct from whether people with an EdD should cease to be addressed as "Dr." You can feel that spouses (or daughters, or sons-in-law, or sons) should stay entirely out of policy matters, while still acknowledging their traditional titles.  Completely separate arguments. The debate about "Dr." has nothing to do with Hillary or the actions or inactions of any other relative or spouse.

Agreed.

Also, to the other point:

Kushner? Ivanka?

Daughters and sons and sons-in-law all over the place in the past four years, all of whom barely have any competencies (or relevant degrees) to bring to the tasks they shoo others along into doing.

Except for the shared DNA, of course...

M.

[Ruralguy]

In the new Doctor scheme, can we call dentists "doctor?" It would appear not because they don't meet the baby criterion (usually).
I propose a solution: "Dentor." Audiologists and chiropractors are also tricky.

[FishProf]

What about Dr. J?  Doc Rivers? Doc McStuffins?  What about a Vet?

Have any of them delivered a baby?

And I HAVE, so is my PhD good enough for Epstein?

[fourhats]

Epstein, let us not forget, is the author of a bestseller called "Snobbery", American style. Clearly he's demonstrating that here. He also knows that Joe Biden often calls his wife "kiddo," which Epstein somehow feels entitled to use despite not being her spouse. So his article is a mashup of misogyny and snobbery (and of course he himself has no doctorate, so he feels comfortable begrudging her hers).

In the UK, top senior medical doctors go by the title "Mister." Not sure how he'd respond to that.

[Ruralguy]

Did he say it needed to be a baby human? If not, then most vets have probably delivered more babies than most MD's.

[Diogenes]

He's not even listening to the current FLOTUS that he presumably likes, he should #BeBest

[writingprof]

In the new Doctor scheme, can we call dentists "doctor?" It would appear not because they don't meet the baby criterion (usually).
I propose a solution: "Dentor."

You anti-dentite bastard.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

Interestingly, none of major news outlets appear to consistently refer to Angela Merkel as "Dr." despite her ticking most boxes in the Epstein's opinion piece:
- Her dissertation is in Physical Chemistry (not "in the social sciences and humanities" decried in the article)
- It has very promising title:
Untersuchung des Mechanismus von Zerfallsreaktionen mit einfachem Bindungsbruch und Berechnung ihrer Geschwindigkeitskonstanten auf der Grundlage quantenchemischer und statistischer Methoden
- I expect any thesis defence in DDR being an "arduous proceeding" enough

[mythbuster]

The New York Times has a standing policy that they do not refer to PhDs as Doctor.

[ergative]

The New York Times has a standing policy that they do not refer to PhDs as Doctor.

Not quite. From this article:

The New York Times's house style allows for anyone with an earned doctorate, such as a Ph.D. or Ed.D., to be identified by the title on subsequent references, provided it is "germane to the holder's primary current occupation.

This would also explain why they wouldn't refer to Merkel as 'Dr': She is only ever in the news in the context of her occupation as Chancellor, not in the context of her expertise as a chemist.

[writingprof]

Kyle Smith, possibly the funniest conservative writer alive, has an excellent take, which no one here will read or like.  (Yet I try.)

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/jill-bidens-doctorate-is-garbage-because-her-dissertation-is-garbage/

The only low blow is when he quotes her RateMyProfessor page to prove that her students are illiterate, and thus she is a bad teacher.  Which of us could pass that test?

[dismalist]

Kyle Smith, possibly the funniest conservative writer alive, has an excellent take, which no one here will read or like.  (Yet I try.)

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/jill-bidens-doctorate-is-garbage-because-her-dissertation-is-garbage/

The only low blow is when he quotes her RateMyProfessor page to prove that her students are illiterate, and thus she is a bad teacher.  Which of us could pass that test?

No, that's a misinterpretation. The Rate My Professor comment proves that Dr. Biden is a an education leader [Fuehrer]: ... it is hard to pass class.

RMP is not without information. Interpreting its contents is like interpreting Pravda. :-)

[mahagonny]

How to get Jill Biden to stop calling herself 'Dr. Biden:' Give her a position on the tenure track.