Joseph Epstein/Jill Biden Controversy over Ed.D.

[mamselle]

Increase Mather's doctorate, like many others of the day, was purchased (from the Univ. of Edinburgh).

Qualifications were, I believe, also a consideration, and since he read and wrote in Latin and read Greek, he was no theological slouch.

But the exchange of money for an advanced degree is not a new thing...

M.

So . . . a compromise?  Increase Mather gets to be First Lady?

If you want to exhume him from Copp's Hill Burying Grounds' frozen soil, and try to talk him out of a fairly heteronormative stance on gender, and his own in particular, have at it.

However, having been a president of Harvard College for a time, and leaving it because he chose not to commute by horseback from Boston to Cambridge every day, you might have some trouble convincing him that the position was worth the bother.

M.

[ciao_yall]

I know what the explanation is for the existence of the Ed.D., but given the fact that the Ph.D. (for whatever reason) is more valued, why not call your program's doctorate a Ph.D. even if not heavy on research? I know several Ph.D. programs that have a "capstone" or other alternative to a dissertation such as allowing three separate papers or something else relative to the field such as a written computer program or a piece of music composed. The idea that a "dissertation" is a research project at all I don't think can necessarily be assumed in some fields.

A PhD is a research-oriented degree and can be entered from a Bachelor's program. The student starts from the very beginning of the graduate study process.

And EdD is a practitioner's degree, and students are expected to have a Master's degree before entering. It is shorter because the student is expected to have a number of foundational skills.

There is also a thing called a DBA which stands for Doctor of Business Administration and is like an MBA on steroids. Some people with Master's in other subjects decide to do the DBA for various reasons. Doesn't do much for someone with an MBA already, IMHO.

[ciao_yall]

Anybody remember that Mike Tyson holds an honorary doctorate?  He got it back when I was in grad school, and we all chuckled that Dr. Iron Mike got the title before any of us did.

My Community College gives out Honorary Associate's Degrees.

[Parasaurolophus]

Anybody remember that Mike Tyson holds an honorary doctorate?  He got it back when I was in grad school, and we all chuckled that Dr. Iron Mike got the title before any of us did.

My Community College gives out Honorary Associate's Degrees.

I find that equal parts beautiful and sad.

[Mobius]

There is irony regarding many academics championing her degree and her job on Twitter who would also be against hiring her for a TT job teaching writing at their own institutions because she has an Ed.D.

[ciao_yall]

There is irony regarding many academics championing her degree and her job on Twitter who would also be against hiring her for a TT job teaching writing at their own institutions because she has an Ed.D.

Different job, different degree.

[mahagonny]

There is irony regarding many academics championing her degree and her job on Twitter who would also be against hiring her for a TT job teaching writing at their own institutions because she has an Ed.D.

Different job, different degree.

Nothing is ironic where the tenure track's behavior is concerned. There is no second guessing the stewards of truth and the advancement of humankind.

[Mobius]

There is irony regarding many academics championing her degree and her job on Twitter who would also be against hiring her for a TT job teaching writing at their own institutions because she has an Ed.D.

Different job, different degree.

Come on, there are plenty of people virtue signaling and considering her their academic equal when we all know they'd scoff at a random person with the same degree and job.

[Descartes]

There is irony regarding many academics championing her degree and her job on Twitter who would also be against hiring her for a TT job teaching writing at their own institutions because she has an Ed.D.

Different job, different degree.

Come on, there are plenty of people virtue signaling and considering her their academic equal when we all know they'd scoff at a random person with the same degree and job.

More than that,  they'd say or at least think most of what the op-ed writer said.

[financeguy]

And they would not be thinking this for no reason. Ed schools are questionable to say the least for a number of reasons. The field itself is about protecting the incompetent through teacher unions rather than educating children. Their own course work is laughable, up to and including what is needed for their doctoral level degree. The fact that she had a job teaching writing at a community college at all is a testament to the fact that these basic skills are routinely not instilled at the k-12 level.

[Parasaurolophus]

And they would not be thinking this for no reason. Ed schools are questionable to say the least for a number of reasons. The field itself is about protecting the incompetent through teacher unions rather than educating children. Their own course work is laughable, up to and including what is needed for their doctoral level degree. The fact that she had a job teaching writing at a community college at all is a testament to the fact that these basic skills are routinely not instilled at the k-12 level.

Says financeguy.

[mahagonny]

And they would not be thinking this for no reason. Ed schools are questionable to say the least for a number of reasons. The field itself is about protecting the incompetent through teacher unions rather than educating children. Their own course work is laughable, up to and including what is needed for their doctoral level degree. The fact that she had a job teaching writing at a community college at all is a testament to the fact that these basic skills are routinely not instilled at the k-12 level.

Says financeguy.

Does someone maintain that she isn't qualified to perform her current teaching job competently, now that she's been doing it for many years. I haven't seen it. Other than Kyle Smith, who's probably looking for a way to smear, well guess I should say, put-down the Bidens to rain on their parade. I doubt that he complained about her getting the appointment when it first happened.

[spork]

Old Man Yells At Cloud:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/joseph-epstein-is-not-a-fan-of-the-modern-university.

Things have been going to hell in a handbasket since the 19th Amendment was ratified.

[Hibush]

Old Man Yells At Cloud:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/joseph-epstein-is-not-a-fan-of-the-modern-university.

Things have been going to hell in a handbasket since the 19th Amendment was ratified.

Thanks for that longer explanation and context. Clearly the very idea of an EdD is an abomination in his world, never mind the modern execution that's being discussed in this thread.

Apparently Epstein would find Goethe too progressive, "Das Leben gehört den Lebenden an, und wer lebt, muss auf Wechsel gefasst sein." [Rendered here in the original, since Epstein appears not to abide the academic decay evident by needing translation.]

[Descartes]

It's still funny to me that if Jill Biden had shown up on the old board,  under a pseudonym of course,  and listed her credentials,  position,  and experience while asking if it was appropriate to take the title "doctor," she would have been roundly mocked and condemned.