Vaccination nation

[Larimar]

Thanks to newprofwife....

I'd rather be a lab rat than a plague rat.

That's a good line.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Jesus.... I just found out that my brother and his family are not vaccinated. And they want us to come over there for Xmas. My mother is insisting that we all go over there. Good Lord. I just can't deal with the stupidity.

[lightning]

Jesus.... I just found out that my brother and his family are not vaccinated. And they want us to come over there for Xmas. My mother is insisting that we all go over there. Good Lord. I just can't deal with the stupidity.

Don't go. If it's their right not to get vaccinated, it's your right to refuse to visit them.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Jesus.... I just found out that my brother and his family are not vaccinated. And they want us to come over there for Xmas. My mother is insisting that we all go over there. Good Lord. I just can't deal with the stupidity.

Don't go. If it's their right not to get vaccinated, it's your right to refuse to visit them.

Did I mention that they're all crazy? My brother and his wife got Covid last year and have 'natural immunity.'

[clean]

If they DID have COVID, then why wouldnt they have natural immunity and be just as safe as the rest of us with 'un natural immunity'?

I replied to the Venting post to fake a car problem, but IF they have acquired 'natural immunity' what is the issue? 

there are a lot of reasons not to go, but if they did have COVID, the vaccination seems to be a lower level reason.

[Puget]

If they DID have COVID, then why wouldnt they have natural immunity and be just as safe as the rest of us with 'un natural immunity'?

I replied to the Venting post to fake a car problem, but IF they have acquired 'natural immunity' what is the issue? 

there are a lot of reasons not to go, but if they did have COVID, the vaccination seems to be a lower level reason.

Not remotely true-- "natural immunity" does't provide anything close to the same level of protections as vaccination.

[dismalist]

If they DID have COVID, then why wouldnt they have natural immunity and be just as safe as the rest of us with 'un natural immunity'?

I replied to the Venting post to fake a car problem, but IF they have acquired 'natural immunity' what is the issue? 

there are a lot of reasons not to go, but if they did have COVID, the vaccination seems to be a lower level reason.

Not remotely true-- "natural immunity" does't provide anything close to the same level of protections as vaccination.

Natural immunity may well be stronger immunity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x

Sources differ. My Bayesian prior, determined by, at this stage, necessarily noisy information, is that natural and artificial immunity are equal.

No reason to panic.

[ciao_yall]

If they DID have COVID, then why wouldnt they have natural immunity and be just as safe as the rest of us with 'un natural immunity'?

I replied to the Venting post to fake a car problem, but IF they have acquired 'natural immunity' what is the issue? 

there are a lot of reasons not to go, but if they did have COVID, the vaccination seems to be a lower level reason.

Not remotely true-- "natural immunity" does't provide anything close to the same level of protections as vaccination.

Natural immunity may well be stronger immunity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x

Sources differ. My Bayesian prior, determined by, at this stage, necessarily noisy information, is that natural and artificial immunity are equal.

No reason to panic.

Assuming you didn't die first.

Natural immunity didn't work so well for the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, Polio...

[dismalist]

If they DID have COVID, then why wouldnt they have natural immunity and be just as safe as the rest of us with 'un natural immunity'?

I replied to the Venting post to fake a car problem, but IF they have acquired 'natural immunity' what is the issue? 

there are a lot of reasons not to go, but if they did have COVID, the vaccination seems to be a lower level reason.

Not remotely true-- "natural immunity" does't provide anything close to the same level of protections as vaccination.

Natural immunity may well be stronger immunity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x

Sources differ. My Bayesian prior, determined by, at this stage, necessarily noisy information, is that natural and artificial immunity are equal.

No reason to panic.

Assuming you didn't die first.

Natural immunity didn't work so well for the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, Polio...

What one must understand is that not everyone who catches Covid, vaccinated, unvaccinated, or previously infected, will suffer or die from it. Natural vs. vaccinated immunity to Covid is like putting you into two different gambling joints, each with different odds. Plague, 1918 Flu, and obviously polio, and all the rest are different gambling joints -- they have different propagation and morbidity and mortality properties. My guess, from the noisy data coming in, is the odds for Covid are the same in the natural and vaccinated joints. Others may have different guesses.

Guarantees there are not. Get used to it.

I am here to convey, not to convince. :-)

[mahagonny]

My son's college has instituted a requirement that all faculty, staff, and students receive a booster by a certain date in January. Students also have to provide a negative test in order to resume studies in the spring.

Meanwhile, my college was originally going to comply with the executive order requiring federal contractors to have their employees vaccinated (only employees, not students) but stopped when a judge issued an injunction.

Mine did this as well.

Here as well.

Mine too. Just announced. This helps Joe Biden politically, which all of our college presidents want. Which isn't a good reason not to get the booster shot, but it is something to notice.

[downer]

What's the given rationale for colleges requiring people to get boosters. Is there evidence that people who get boosters are less likely to infect others? Or are colleges aiming to reduce the burden on hospitals?

[Puget]

What's the given rationale for colleges requiring people to get boosters. Is there evidence that people who get boosters are less likely to infect others? Or are colleges aiming to reduce the burden on hospitals?

Boosters reduce infections, so yes, that reduces transmission. Two doses is not enough with omicron-- the data on that is pretty clear now.

[clean]

Natural immunity didn't work so well for the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, Polio...

Im not sure what you are saying.   Generally speaking immunity means that you can not get the same illness twice. It does not mean that you can not get sick in the first instance! So someone that gets and survives the Black Plague or polio would not be able to get it again.  That does not mean that they were protected in the first place!

I am not aware of any cases of people getting any of those illnesses listed twice. 

However, I will concede that viruses mutate, so it is possible that one could catch a variant of the disease once it sufficiently mutates. However, that would be true o the COVID vaccine and perhaps the Omicron variant, or whatever comes next.  After all, we get an annual flu shot. 

[Puget]

Natural immunity didn't work so well for the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, Polio...

Im not sure what you are saying.   Generally speaking immunity means that you can not get the same illness twice. It does not mean that you can not get sick in the first instance! So someone that gets and survives the Black Plague or polio would not be able to get it again.  That does not mean that they were protected in the first place!

I am not aware of any cases of people getting any of those illnesses listed twice. 

However, I will concede that viruses mutate, so it is possible that one could catch a variant of the disease once it sufficiently mutates. However, that would be true o the COVID vaccine and perhaps the Omicron variant, or whatever comes next.  After all, we get an annual flu shot.

There are pathogens where infection confers life-long immunity, but unfortunately covid isn't one of them.  There is pretty good evidence that (a) natural immunity from covid declines fairly quickly (within months), and (b) infection with prior variants seems to confer limited protection against omicron. So you really don't want to be counting on "natural immunity" alone. Now, there is evidence that "hybrid immunity" (vax followed by breakthrough infection) is really good, better than either alone. But you want it in that order, not risking infection without vaccine first.

[Caracal]

Natural immunity didn't work so well for the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, Polio...

Im not sure what you are saying.   Generally speaking immunity means that you can not get the same illness twice. It does not mean that you can not get sick in the first instance! So someone that gets and survives the Black Plague or polio would not be able to get it again.  That does not mean that they were protected in the first place!

I am not aware of any cases of people getting any of those illnesses listed twice. 

However, I will concede that viruses mutate, so it is possible that one could catch a variant of the disease once it sufficiently mutates. However, that would be true o the COVID vaccine and perhaps the Omicron variant, or whatever comes next.  After all, we get an annual flu shot.

Interesting article on this.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

Basically, it isn't really clear that immunity ever provides some sort of complete protection from infection.