Vaccination nation

[mamselle]

It takes time, planning, zoning, money, and passing a bazillion inspections. Plus trained, knowledgeable production staff, supervisors, packaging and delivery teams.

One pharma out of the 5 I worked for as an EA had a production plant in-state, and it was 20 miles out of town. The other four were in different states, or overseas.

Many pharmas with US lab footprints are centered elsewhere. They'd have to get more clearances for international production from both their own countries, and ours, as well as patent-use clearances, which can take decades of litigation if there's a challenge.

It's not as simple as that.

M.

For all the above reasons, plus I forgot to mention the need for independent clinical trials which can take 2-3 years minimum, a rushed process doesn't fill me with confidence, and I had a oddly strong reaction to a smallpox vaccination many years ago, so I usually avoid them.

I've never had flu (knock on wood) and I barely go out, and go heavily PPD'd when I do, so I'll probably wait and see for quite awhile....live viri are too close to inoculation, whose uses and results I've studied historically, for my taste.

M. 

[dismalist]

I was talking to my opthamologist today who said he was getting the covid vaccine soon but was quite frightened to be taking a live vaccine that is untested for long term effects.

The vaccines available in the US [mRNA] do not contain live viruses. They don't even contain whole viruses.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2020/11/29/coronavirus-vaccines-difference/?sh=78d2f0f92ae6

[Ruralguy]

And it was an MD who made those remarks...

[dismalist]

And it was an MD who made those remarks...

He was probably absent the day vaccines were studied in Medical School.

No surprise there.

[Puget]

I was talking to my opthamologist today who said he was getting the covid vaccine soon but was quite frightened to be taking a live vaccine that is untested for long term effects.

We have seen large proportions of health care workers turn down the opportunity to take the vaccine.

Have you had conversations with people with medical training who are reluctant to take the vaccine? What have they said?

Find a new ophthalmologist-- this one apparently flunked reading comprehension let alone vaccine science. None of the vaccines is a live vaccine.

For all the above reasons, plus I forgot to mention the need for independent clinical trials which can take 2-3 years minimum, a rushed process doesn't fill me with confidence, and I had a oddly strong reaction to a smallpox vaccination many years ago, so I usually avoid them.

Please reconsider-- the trials took less time because (a) the science has advanced dramatically, and (b) the rate of infection in the control group was so high it didn't take long to show efficacy (much slower when there are low endemic levels in a population). Fast does not equal bad-- the testing has been rigorous. Do your part to get us to herd immunity.

[jimbogumbo]

Just not this ophthalmologist:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul

[apl68]

I was talking to my opthamologist today who said he was getting the covid vaccine soon but was quite frightened to be taking a live vaccine that is untested for long term effects.

We have seen large proportions of health care workers turn down the opportunity to take the vaccine.

Have you had conversations with people with medical training who are reluctant to take the vaccine? What have they said?

Find a new ophthalmologist-- this one apparently flunked reading comprehension let alone vaccine science. None of the vaccines is a live vaccine.

For all the above reasons, plus I forgot to mention the need for independent clinical trials which can take 2-3 years minimum, a rushed process doesn't fill me with confidence, and I had a oddly strong reaction to a smallpox vaccination many years ago, so I usually avoid them.

Please reconsider-- the trials took less time because (a) the science has advanced dramatically, and (b) the rate of infection in the control group was so high it didn't take long to show efficacy (much slower when there are low endemic levels in a population). Fast does not equal bad-- the testing has been rigorous. Do your part to get us to herd immunity.

I think part of the confusion is that there are live virus COVID vaccines in use--but NOT in the U.S. 

Development of the vaccines was speeded up because there was a lot of preliminary work already done in recent years on similar viruses.  They didn't have to start developing a vaccine from square one.

[downer]

I was talking to my opthamologist today who said he was getting the covid vaccine soon but was quite frightened to be taking a live vaccine that is untested for long term effects.

We have seen large proportions of health care workers turn down the opportunity to take the vaccine.

Have you had conversations with people with medical training who are reluctant to take the vaccine? What have they said?

Find a new ophthalmologist-- this one apparently flunked reading comprehension let alone vaccine science. None of the vaccines is a live vaccine.

For all the above reasons, plus I forgot to mention the need for independent clinical trials which can take 2-3 years minimum, a rushed process doesn't fill me with confidence, and I had a oddly strong reaction to a smallpox vaccination many years ago, so I usually avoid them.

Please reconsider-- the trials took less time because (a) the science has advanced dramatically, and (b) the rate of infection in the control group was so high it didn't take long to show efficacy (much slower when there are low endemic levels in a population). Fast does not equal bad-- the testing has been rigorous. Do your part to get us to herd immunity.

I think part of the confusion is that there are live virus COVID vaccines in use--but NOT in the U.S. 

Development of the vaccines was speeded up because there was a lot of preliminary work already done in recent years on similar viruses.  They didn't have to start developing a vaccine from square one.

My guy is from Israel. Are they using live virus COVID vaccines there?

[Kron3007]

I was talking to my opthamologist today who said he was getting the covid vaccine soon but was quite frightened to be taking a live vaccine that is untested for long term effects.

We have seen large proportions of health care workers turn down the opportunity to take the vaccine.

Have you had conversations with people with medical training who are reluctant to take the vaccine? What have they said?

Find a new ophthalmologist-- this one apparently flunked reading comprehension let alone vaccine science. None of the vaccines is a live vaccine.

For all the above reasons, plus I forgot to mention the need for independent clinical trials which can take 2-3 years minimum, a rushed process doesn't fill me with confidence, and I had a oddly strong reaction to a smallpox vaccination many years ago, so I usually avoid them.

Please reconsider-- the trials took less time because (a) the science has advanced dramatically, and (b) the rate of infection in the control group was so high it didn't take long to show efficacy (much slower when there are low endemic levels in a population). Fast does not equal bad-- the testing has been rigorous. Do your part to get us to herd immunity.

I think part of the confusion is that there are live virus COVID vaccines in use--but NOT in the U.S. 

Development of the vaccines was speeded up because there was a lot of preliminary work already done in recent years on similar viruses.  They didn't have to start developing a vaccine from square one.

It's also largely that mRNA based vaccines can be designed and produced very quickly.  Moderna's vaccine was already designed in January, 2020, before Covid was even classified as a pandemic and only 2 days after the covid sequence was released.  Phase one clinical trials started within a month of this, which is unprecedented.  The other beauty is that this type of vaccine can be quickly re-designed to address new variants that are not controlled with the initial sequence.  Science is awesome! 

 

[Puget]

Good explainer on how different vaccines work here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/how-covid-19-vaccines-work.html?action=click&state=default&region=hub&context=storyline_hub&module=styln-coronavirus-vaccines&variant=show&pgtype=LegacyCollection

I think part of the confusion is that there are live virus COVID vaccines in use--but NOT in the U.S. 

Where are you seeing live coronavirus vaccines being used? There are some *inactivated* coronavirus vaccines being used in othe parts of the world, and some vaccines that use a modified chimp adenovirus (which is harmless and can't replicate) to carry a fragment of spike protein DNA into cells (e.g., the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine), but I haven't seen any using a live (attenuated) coronavirus.

My guy is from Israel. Are they using live virus COVID vaccines there?

No, pretty sure they are using the same ones as in the US. Your guy is just an idiot I'm afraid. 

[apl68]

Good explainer on how different vaccines work here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/how-covid-19-vaccines-work.html?action=click&state=default&region=hub&context=storyline_hub&module=styln-coronavirus-vaccines&variant=show&pgtype=LegacyCollection

I think part of the confusion is that there are live virus COVID vaccines in use--but NOT in the U.S. 

Where are you seeing live coronavirus vaccines being used? There are some *inactivated* coronavirus vaccines being used in othe parts of the world, and some vaccines that use a modified chimp adenovirus (which is harmless and can't replicate) to carry a fragment of spike protein DNA into cells (e.g., the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine), but I haven't seen any using a live (attenuated) coronavirus.

I don't remember the article off the top of my head.  I might have confused an attenuated-virus vaccine under development with an inactivated-virus vaccine actually in service somewhere.

[spork]

And it was an MD who made those remarks...

At least half of MDs were below average in medical school.

[Kron3007]

And it was an MD who made those remarks...

At least half of MDs were below average in medical school.

At least?

[Cheerful]

And it was an MD who made those remarks...

At least half of MDs were below average in medical school.

At least?

Below the median not below average, right?

[spork]

Would you prefer "at most"? It's the same thing. Especially if it's MDs who are calculating the statistic. Though at least half would probably fuck it up.