Vaccination nation

[pgher]

Today I shared this column by Eugene Robinson on Facebook. An old high school friend replied, among other things, "Health comes from the inside out, not the outside artificial route." So far, I have chosen not to respond. I don't even know where to begin.

Yet another data point supporting the "we're all doomed" narrative.

It's always the old high school friend.

Yeah, and he's a chiropractor to boot.

[Langue_doc]

Today I shared this column by Eugene Robinson on Facebook. An old high school friend replied, among other things, "Health comes from the inside out, not the outside artificial route." So far, I have chosen not to respond. I don't even know where to begin.

Yet another data point supporting the "we're all doomed" narrative.

It's always the old high school friend.

Yeah, and he's a chiropractor to boot.

There are sensible chiropractors who know what they're doing, and quacks.

[kaysixteen]

Perhaps in a relative sense, but chiropractic itself is essentially quackery, based as it is on junk, made-up science.

[lightning]

Now that vaccines are becoming more available, I'm wondering if the people that get them ahead of the general larger population, are feeling a sense of temporary ascendancy.

I can see where being vaccinated can give someone a social and/or career advantage, for the next couple of months, while everyone else tries to catch up, while balefully scrolling by the gleeful social media posts of the vaccinated.

I'm seeing this in my k-12 teacher friends who are getting vaccinated ahead of most everyone else. For this brief moment, they are enjoying an elevated status, which they deserve considering the scorn & suspicion & that has been heaped upon them for the last year, despite being abandoned on an island to do an impossible job.

[clean]

I dont know if they feel glee, or elevated status, but I am sure that they feel relief. 

Some look at the shot as an ability to get back to normal, an opening of the door that has shut them in. 

after the shot some are looking forward to returning to the world of eating in a restaurant, going to a movie, shopping (some have been using home delivery or curbside pick up - which some like and will continue)

[Caracal]

I dont know if they feel glee, or elevated status, but I am sure that they feel relief. 

Some look at the shot as an ability to get back to normal, an opening of the door that has shut them in. 

after the shot some are looking forward to returning to the world of eating in a restaurant, going to a movie, shopping (some have been using home delivery or curbside pick up - which some like and will continue)

Hmm, well I got my first shot yesterday. Can't say I feel any elevated status. I might feel more relaxed when I start getting a certain amount of protection in two weeks. Once the full protection kicks in 10 days or whatever after second shot, I suppose I'll think about what it changes. Since I have a young kid, the main question for me is exactly how much the vaccines protect against transmission. It's pretty clear that they protect quite a bit, but if its like upwards of 75 percent that would be a big difference. My parents and in laws are all vaccinated, so I'm not worried about them, nor am I really worried about the kid getting infected. However, I wouldn't want to send him to school and have him transmit to other kids who might transmit to people more vulnerable and it isn't easy to keep him home for a week+.

Other than that, I probably will be fine with more low risk things like going to a store. I wouldn't go to a restaurant till cases are much much lower.

[dismalist]

I'm going in for #1 tomorrow, with the over 90 set! :-)

If it were up to me, I'd sell my shot on a black market, which unfortunately does not exist. Where are the cartels when we need them?

People, the vaccine reduces risk, one hell of a lot. We cannot ask for more.

[FishProf]

My in-laws (80s) are vaccinated, and now they are insisting that it is safe to come and visit us and be all together in the living room.

Grrr.  WE are not vaccinated, and Smolt won't be for quite a while.  So, NO.  (Now I have to convince MrsFishProf)

[Caracal]

My in-laws (80s) are vaccinated, and now they are insisting that it is safe to come and visit us and be all together in the living room.

Grrr.  WE are not vaccinated, and Smolt won't be for quite a while.  So, NO.  (Now I have to convince MrsFishProf)

The vaccine probably almost certainly does provide a fair amount of protection against transmission. I can understand not wanting to do anything until you know how much, but this isn't necessarily crazy. If the in laws aren't doing anything indoors with others, then risk is quite lower. If doing things only with vaccinated people, also pretty low probably. Also, of course, depends on the extent to which you are out in the world and might transmit in the unlikely event you became infected.

[Economizer]

Two Down, Done Deal! At completion I was given my document that said so. "Why", I asked. "In case you have to certify that you have for some reason.",  I was told.

Me, at a singles gathering, "Hi, I'm Randy", response, "Yes, of course. My name is Audrey. "YOUR PAPERS!"

[Ruralguy]

I wouldn't have a big party, but vaccinated people, several weeks after their last shot, are likely very well protected, if you believe the Pfizer data out of Israel, etc.. Small masked gatherings are probably OK. The question then becomes whether the visitors have to travel through airports and such to get to Grandma. If that's so, hold off. Let them call the shots on how much risk they are willing to assume, but you get to call shots on whether you wish to be a part of that yet.

[Caracal]

I wouldn't have a big party, but vaccinated people, several weeks after their last shot, are likely very well protected, if you believe the Pfizer data out of Israel, etc.. Small masked gatherings are probably OK. The question then becomes whether the visitors have to travel through airports and such to get to Grandma. If that's so, hold off. Let them call the shots on how much risk they are willing to assume, but you get to call shots on whether you wish to be a part of that yet.

And various studies also show that vaccinated people are much less likely to be infected, even asymptomatically. None of them are totally randomized trails so it makes sense to be a bit cautious about it, but it fits with what everyone has suspected from the beginning.

Medical systems and public health tend to be really bad at dealing with risk and individual calculations and default to an idea that no amount of risk is acceptable, which is just unworkable because it doesn't consider the costs. Not being able to visit family members and friends is crummy, my parents aren't getting younger and it means a lot to my kid to see them. Socializing is really important, etc. etc. Up to this point the risk of visiting people and indoor socializing has been so high, that it outweighs those high costs, but as a vaccine drives those risks down you have to evaluate when that switches for some things.

[Cheerful]

My in-laws (80s) are vaccinated, and now they are insisting that it is safe to come and visit us and be all together in the living room.

Grrr.  WE are not vaccinated, and Smolt won't be for quite a while.  So, NO.  (Now I have to convince MrsFishProf)

Thanks for sharing this.

1. Is this because, although vaccinated (with second dose, say a month ago), age 80s in-laws have a small chance of catching Covid from family who are not vaccinated?

2.  Is it because we don't yet know with certainty whether the vaccinated can still transmit the virus to those not vaccinated?

3.  What are people's thoughts on someone who is not vaccinated visiting elderly family members who are vaccinated?  Is that too much of a risk to the elderly?  In some families, there may be some members who choose not to get vaccinated.  What are the implications?

4.  I'm confused.

[Puget]

I think a lot of the messaging around post-vaccination risks coming from some public health folks is unhelpful and likely to backfire. People are bad at thinking about risk probabilities. If you keep telling people they can't do anything differently because the risk is non-zero, they are likely to just dismiss any other messaging around risk mitigation. After all, nothing in life is zero risk (including staying home alone!), so that's just not a realistic goal.

Helping people think about risk budgets would be much more helpful-- want to spend time indoors with a select group of other vaccinated people? Great, you can do that relatively safely, but maybe think about not eating indoors at restaurants to help balance the risk budget, etc.

Also, I lot of us who do mental health research think the second wave mental health crisis from all this will be a certain percentage of people who remain extremely anxious about health risks to the point that they continue to isolate and find it very hard to re-engage in normal activities. You already see this e.g., in people who continue to do things like wipe down groceries with disinfectant and leave packages and mail "quarantined" for days, despite petty clear scientific consensus that this is neither necessary nor helpful (and potentially harmful given the cleaning products are not always benign).

[histchick]

My in-laws (80s) are vaccinated, and now they are insisting that it is safe to come and visit us and be all together in the living room.

Grrr.  WE are not vaccinated, and Smolt won't be for quite a while.  So, NO.  (Now I have to convince MrsFishProf)

Thanks for sharing this.

1. Is this because, although vaccinated (with second dose, say a month ago), age 80s in-laws have a small chance of catching Covid from family who are not vaccinated?

2.  Is it because we don't yet know with certainty whether the vaccinated can still transmit the virus to those not vaccinated?

3.  What are people's thoughts on someone who is not vaccinated visiting elderly family members who are vaccinated?  Is that too much of a risk to the elderly?  In some families, there may be some members who choose not to get vaccinated.  What are the implications?

4.  I'm confused.

In my case, it's a combo of #1 and #2.  My parents are in their 70s (mother was recent cancer patient) and my husband and I are high-risk and haven't been vaccinated. My brother lives with my parents and works outside the home.  He's very careful around them (and they with him).  We have seen them three times since February 2020, but only because we were able to isolate for several days before and after each visit, and they have plenty of room to distance even during a meal. Still a risk, but one with which everyone was comfortable. 

Our state may expand eligibility at the end of the month, so we should be fully vaccinated by early May, right as the semester is ending.  At this point, we might as well wait to visit again.  My parents, while they want to see us, understand completely.