Vaccination nation

[Caracal]

We have the option of gently asking them to leave if maskless, then we can call campus police and/or cancel class. I won't call the cops on anyone for that, but hopefully canceling class puts a lot of peer pressure on a person. 1st class was 100% masked. Hoping that continues.

Our options are far more limited.  We can ask once, and offer a mask, but if the student refuses, we are directed to move on- nothing more.
We CAN use a seating chart, but the provost explicitly noted that we can not discriminate by mask choice (like move the massless to the back of the room.) 

From what I understand, we can not even keep maskless people out of our offices!  Im not too worried that anyone will visit my office, either with or without a mask!  but IF I do feel uncomfortable with a maskless person, I will just announce that Im not feeling well and have to go to the bathroom.  Once I return, I will announce that I am going home.  That is my thinking anyway.  I have plenty of sick leave and I will certainly document it so that I am more protected from retaliation.

Having a mask mandate is so much simpler, easier and reduces conflict. I've had no problems at all with compliance because its just the rule in all classes. When you make it about the individual choices of professors and students, you just get a set up designed to have conflicts and issues.

If you think about it, in the absence of a university wide rule, it is sort of weird to have an instructor urging students to put something on their face. A student is going to find it invasive and controlling. That's why public health and safety measures have to be enforced on an institution wide scale. Nobody thinks it would be a good idea for instructors to ask students about their vaccination records or whether they have had a TB test. That's not supposed to be our job.

[downer]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

[waterboy]

Although painful, perhaps this is the only way to reduce the number of medical "professionals" that don't actually believe in science.

[Kron3007]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

We have some of this in Canada as well.  I would guess it is more prevelant in the USA (and in particular some specific states/regions), but that is just a guess based on the general attitudes of the populations.

[Hibush]

Although painful, perhaps this is the only way to reduce the number of medical "professionals" that don't actually believe in science.

In my town, the school I'm at has ~2% unvaccinated, but the hospital has almost 20%. You'd think the hospital could beat us in vaccination, but they are apparently less health oriented.

[lightning]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

[Caracal]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

I guess there are some concerns about actual shortages when you combine this with burnout and already existing nursing shortages. I am pretty much in agreement with this though. When I end up in the hospital someday, I don't want to be treated by someone who is uninterested in avoiding infecting with me a dangerous disease.

[nebo113]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Our regional medical system is not requiring vaxxes for its staff.

[downer]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

I guess there are some concerns about actual shortages when you combine this with burnout and already existing nursing shortages. I am pretty much in agreement with this though. When I end up in the hospital someday, I don't want to be treated by someone who is uninterested in avoiding infecting with me a dangerous disease.

How do you feel about ending up in hospital with a serious staffing shortage of nurses and other workers?
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/27/1041047608/vaccine-deadlines-hospitals-fear-staffing-shortages

[Caracal]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

I guess there are some concerns about actual shortages when you combine this with burnout and already existing nursing shortages. I am pretty much in agreement with this though. When I end up in the hospital someday, I don't want to be treated by someone who is uninterested in avoiding infecting with me a dangerous disease.

How do you feel about ending up in hospital with a serious staffing shortage of nurses and other workers?
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/27/1041047608/vaccine-deadlines-hospitals-fear-staffing-shortages

Less good.

I don't think it makes much sense to think of this in isolation to other factors involving labor and employment, however. You don't see many stories about people working at tech companies refusing to comply with vaccine mandates. There aren't that many people who are willing to give up jobs that pay well and have good working conditions regardless of whatever dumb ideas they might have about the vaccine. If they do quit, those companies aren't likely to have much trouble finding people who would take those jobs.

I doubt that nurses are more anti-science than anyone else. I suspect people unwilling to get the vaccine to keep their jobs are mostly not particularly happy with their job in the first place-which is probably about pay, working conditions and particular stresses of covid.

[downer]

There's definitely a big discussion to be had about the role of nurses and health care in US society. I teach nurses-in-training regularly. Most of the classes are 80% women or more. Health care is a massive industry in the US -- isn't it the largest one by some estimates? Why is the health of the US population so bad? Many things point to a drastic need for a change in social priorities.

The health care system in the US is barely functional for those who are not wealthy and it doesn't take more than a small bump to cause major disturbances.

[dismalist]

The health care system in the US is barely functional for those who are not wealthy

For the uninsured, 9% of the population.

[lightning]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

I guess there are some concerns about actual shortages when you combine this with burnout and already existing nursing shortages. I am pretty much in agreement with this though. When I end up in the hospital someday, I don't want to be treated by someone who is uninterested in avoiding infecting with me a dangerous disease.

How do you feel about ending up in hospital with a serious staffing shortage of nurses and other workers?
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/27/1041047608/vaccine-deadlines-hospitals-fear-staffing-shortages

not as uncomfortable as getting treated by un-vaccinated nurses

Let this play out.

[ciao_yall]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

I guess there are some concerns about actual shortages when you combine this with burnout and already existing nursing shortages. I am pretty much in agreement with this though. When I end up in the hospital someday, I don't want to be treated by someone who is uninterested in avoiding infecting with me a dangerous disease.

How do you feel about ending up in hospital with a serious staffing shortage of nurses and other workers?
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/27/1041047608/vaccine-deadlines-hospitals-fear-staffing-shortages

not as uncomfortable as getting treated by un-vaccinated nurses

Let this play out.

Perhaps this will also result in improved funding and access to medical training for all health care workers, from nurses to PAs, NPs and even MDs. Spaces are limited in programs due to cost, and then practical training is limited again, due to limited resources available to train new employees.

[dismalist]

I've been seeing news reports and also hearing from people I know locally that a lot of nurses are refusing to get vaccinated and are willing to be laid off rather than get the vaccine. Today is the deadline for the federal mandate for health care workers, and it is a big problem for many places that rely on nurses, because there is already a nursing shortage.

Is the USA the only country to be going through this insanity of health care workers refusing the vaccine?

Good riddance. Most medical professionals believe in the vaccine. Those that do and get vaccinated will probably be glad that they no longer have to work with anti-vaxxers.

I guess there are some concerns about actual shortages when you combine this with burnout and already existing nursing shortages. I am pretty much in agreement with this though. When I end up in the hospital someday, I don't want to be treated by someone who is uninterested in avoiding infecting with me a dangerous disease.

How do you feel about ending up in hospital with a serious staffing shortage of nurses and other workers?
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/27/1041047608/vaccine-deadlines-hospitals-fear-staffing-shortages

not as uncomfortable as getting treated by un-vaccinated nurses

Let this play out.

Perhaps this will also result in improved funding and access to medical training for all health care workers, from nurses to PAs, NPs and even MDs. Spaces are limited in programs due to cost, and then practical training is limited again, due to limited resources available to train new employees.

Mercy, friends! Total health care spending in the US amounts to about 18% of total income or output.  That's about half more as a share than in civilized countries. How much more do you want?