2020 Elections

[Sun_Worshiper]

You guys have been feeding the troll all day I see, letting this person distract from the treasonous and seditious behavior at the Capital with an irrelevant (and misinformed) series of posts about biology.

[Parasaurolophus]

You guys have been feeding the troll all day I see, letting this person distract from the treasonous and seditious behavior at the Capital with an irrelevant (and misinformed) series of posts about biology.

Yes, you're right. I'll stop.

[downer]

I see no connection between this topic and the subject of the thread. Start another thread.

The connection is about the debate over which side perverted science more.

Some Republicans have been climate-change deniers, and pandemic skeptics. These are largely debates outside of the academy, between left and right. The right takes mostly ludicrous positions, defending policies that have and will cost thousands of lives.

Some Democrats have taken positions on gender and trans identity which some argue denies biological truth. As far as I know Biden took no particular position on gender and biology, but did promise to defend transgender rights. Other Dem pres candidates did take some strong positions on gender identity. These are very much debates mostly within the academy, among liberals. I can hardly imagine anyone on the left voted for Trump as a result of this debate. So in that sense, it is completely irrelevant to this thread. It is not even as if the right is a consistent defender of free speech on campus, though I get the impression that they do love to highlight a lot of cases of cancel culture when those on the right get shut down.

[mahagonny]

I see no connection between this topic and the subject of the thread. Start another thread.

The connection is about the debate over which side perverted science more.

Some Republicans have been climate-change deniers, and pandemic skeptics. These are largely debates outside of the academy, between left and right. The right takes mostly ludicrous positions, defending policies that have and will cost thousands of lives.

Some Democrats have taken positions on gender and trans identity which some argue denies biological truth. As far as I know Biden took no particular position on gender and biology, but did promise to defend transgender rights. Other Dem pres candidates did take some strong positions on gender identity. These are very much debates mostly within the academy, among liberals. I can hardly imagine anyone on the left voted for Trump as a result of this debate. So in that sense, it is completely irrelevant to this thread. It is not even as if the right is a consistent defender of free speech on campus, though I get the impression that they do love to highlight a lot of cases of cancel culture when those on the right get shut down.

My college has never in thirty years invited a conservative speaker. It's not that they 'shut down' diversity of thought. They just drown it out and ignore it intentionally.

[mamselle]

The degree to which security systems were compromised is just now being discussed:

   https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/capitol-attacks-cybersecurity-fallout-stolen-laptops-lost-data-and-possible-espionage/

Apparently a very simple method is to leave a spare USB thumb drive lying about on a desk, which will download malware and/or spyware once inserted.

To say nothing of stolen laptops and XHDD's, printed materials with sensitive information on them, etc.

Donny, we hardly knew ye....

M.

[hmaria1609]

Leaders in the DC region are asking people not to travel to the area:
https://wtop.com/dc/2021/01/capitol-attack-scarier-than-iraq-combat-for-some-dc-police-at-least-56-officers-hurt/
Posted on WTOP Radio online (1/11/21)

[spork]

The FBI is trying to identify the person who planted bombs in DC.

[marshwiggle]

I see no connection between this topic and the subject of the thread. Start another thread.

The connection is about the debate over which side perverted science more.

Some Republicans have been climate-change deniers, and pandemic skeptics.

Some Democrats have taken positions on gender and trans identity which some argue denies biological truth.

There is an old joke. Here is the inclusive version:
Person A: "Would you sleep with me for $1000000?"
Person B: "OK."
Person A: "Would you sleep with me for $10?"
Person B: "What kind of person do you take me for???"
Person A: "We've already established that; now we're just haggling over the price."

When a government* accepts a certain amount of (science denial, lawless behaviour) under certain circumstances, then it has lost much of the moral high ground to criticize another government for (science denial, lawless behaviour), even if it is more egregious and for different reasons.

So, governments that during the summer riots actually instructed law enforcement to not intervene, and even chose not to try and identify lawbreakers to be charged later, then they can only "haggle" over how much lawlessness should be allowed and for what reason.

If tearing down a statue of George Washington is OK, why not a statue of Nelson Mandela or Rosa Parks?

Note that I mentioned the possibility of identifying lawbreakers to be charged later as an action which may be deemed appropriate under certain circumstances, but which is fundamentally different from just leaving them unopposed with no future repercussions. So while it makes perfect sense to have different levels of response based on certain objective criteria, that is not at all the same as condoning the actions by showing that there will be no consequences.

*By a government allowing lawlessness, it undermines people's faith in the system, since the government should, in principle, believe that the system may be flawed but still fundamentally sound. Where the government perceives problems in the system, they should proceed within the rules of the system to try to make changes. A government which lacks faith in the system it represents is hypocritical and its very existence undermines public confidence due to its own actions (or inactions).

[Sun_Worshiper]

We haven't heard a word from Trump, Pence, or any other senior leader in the Administration, even as the country experiences multiple historically severe crises (insurrection, more political violence maybe to come, 3000 people dying per day from Coronavirus). I'm also not aware of press conferences from Republican leaders in Congress or leaders at the FBI, Justice Department, or HHS. Do these people not have a word to share with the American people about what happened in the Capital, how they are shoring up America's defenses against further insurrection, the vaccine rollout, etc?

[spork]

We haven't heard a word from Trump, Pence, or any other senior leader in the Administration, even as the country experiences multiple historically severe crises (insurrection, more political violence maybe to come, 3000 people dying per day from Coronavirus). I'm also not aware of press conferences from Republican leaders in Congress or leaders at the FBI, Justice Department, or HHS. Do these people not have a word to share with the American people about what happened in the Capital, how they are shoring up America's defenses against further insurrection, the vaccine rollout, etc?

Par for the course for Trump. No pun intended. For his entire adult life he has destroyed anything and anyone he has come into contact with. This is why there was never a coherent federal response to the pandemic.

The FBI has sent out a bulletin to local/state agencies warning of armed protests being planned for state capitals over the coming week.

[Sun_Worshiper]

We haven't heard a word from Trump, Pence, or any other senior leader in the Administration, even as the country experiences multiple historically severe crises (insurrection, more political violence maybe to come, 3000 people dying per day from Coronavirus). I'm also not aware of press conferences from Republican leaders in Congress or leaders at the FBI, Justice Department, or HHS. Do these people not have a word to share with the American people about what happened in the Capital, how they are shoring up America's defenses against further insurrection, the vaccine rollout, etc?

Par for the course for Trump. No pun intended. For his entire adult life he has destroyed anything and anyone he has come into contact with. This is why there was never a coherent federal response to the pandemic.

The FBI has sent out a bulletin to local/state agencies warning of armed protests being planned for state capitals over the coming week.

Agreed. Among the worst things about Trump is his disinterest in the actual job of being President.

I've seen articles in the news about the bolded. It would be good to hear more about it (e.g. how likely is this, how is the federal government going to prevent violence, etc.) from somebody in a position of authority.

[AmLitHist]

We haven't heard a word from Trump, Pence, or any other senior leader in the Administration,

The Orange One has spoken. It's good to see he's learned his lesson (per Susan Collins? or was it Murkowski?) by touching the hot stove (per Roy Blunt).

[spork]

"Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die."

[mamselle]

Charges are being considered for at least three Republican congressfolks who on Jan 5 gave tours to "visitors" (the next day, insurrection participants) of the Capitol's corridors. Some representatives and senators are also concerned about the presence of guns in the hands of their colleagues, and upon whom they might turn them.

   https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics/capitol-insurrection-insider-help/index.html

and

   https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/some-democrats-congress-are-worried-their-colleagues-might-kill-them-n1254319

and

   https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-impeached-democrats-turn-focus-gop-accomplices-capitol/story?id=75259158

And at least three of those sheltering in the seclusion area with those who refused to wear masks are now Covid-positive, as well.

   https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-infected-covid-19-siege-capitol-furious-maskless/story?id=75206950

A fine has now been levied for refusal to wear masks in the building.

M.

[dismalist]

The vehemence of the reaction of the left against Trump from his election I have always found puzzling. Perhaps an answer is that Trump is a modern day Huey Long, threatening the establishment from its left, though it is denounced as right. That would certainly explain the hostility.