2020 Elections

[apl68]

Interesting prediction by Paul Begala (CNN).

To upstage the DNC announcement, Begala figures Pence will be replaced on the ticket by Nikki Haley via an announcement from the Florida Camp David.

Reason: He will have done badly in overseeing the coronavirus mess....

   https://thehill.com/homenews/media/485562-cnns-begala-trump-will-dump-pence-for-haley-on-day-of-democratic-nominees

M.

He needs the evangelical vote too much to ditch someone like Pence. Haley has moderate appeal but he'd need a Pence clone.

I disagree. In my experience -- and this is coming from a red state in a predominately Baptist area -- the evangelicals I know already view Trump as the second coming of Christ. I've mentioned before that I have neighbors and colleagues who have Trump's autograph on their Bibles. They view all his actions as righteous, given that almost all define "liberal" or "left" or "not Republican" as literally diabolical. As that one politician from Alabama said, "we'd vote for Satan himself before we'd elect a Democrat." I don't think that's just rhetoric, at least around here. Evangelicals don't "hold their nose" as they defend Trump -- they defend him as if they're defending their own faith.

Well, they feel their faith needs defending.  During the last election many were deeply frightened that a Clinton presidency would lay the groundwork for religious persecution against them.  Voting for the Republican candidate, even though it was somebody like Trump, was an act of desperation.  It seems, in the near term, to have paid off, and so attitudes have hardened in response to the criticisms of them for having done it.  Telling people that their actions represent a sell-out and a loss of integrity has a tendency to provoke such defensive reactions.

My own sense as an evangelical voter since the last election is that our society has reached a point where there is no national candidate we can in good conscience support.  I refuse to vote for either party at the national level.  It disturbs me greatly to see so many evangelical Christians looking to such a godless man for their salvation.  I'd much rather take a chance on getting on a slippery slope to persecution with integrity than sacrificing integrity in a craven effort to have a secular protector.

[dismalist]

Are there parliamentary systems in which we could end up with a combination like Pelosi for President and McCormack for Veep?

THAT would be interesting...

M.

Did you mean Mitch McConnell?  I seem to recall reading that in the earliest elections the VP would be from a different party than the president's own party.

Yeah, the 12th Amendment [1804] made that all but impossible, after Tommy Jefferson and John Adams damned near killed each other.

[mamselle]

Arrgh!  Yes, McConnell.

My error this time....tempting to blame it on auto-correct, but that one's on me...!

M.

[Parasaurolophus]

Looks like 10% of the votes in Dallas County weren't counted at all.

[Anselm]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/new-threshold-for-next-presidential-debate-likely-rules-out-tulsi-gabbard

[pgher]

Looks like 10% of the votes in Dallas County weren't counted at all.

Oops! Fortunately, the future of our nation doesn't depend on fair, free, and accurate elections, and nobody at the national level is accusing states of having fraud in their electoral process.

[Parasaurolophus]

Biden just said, in an interview, that he'd veto M4A if it managed to pass through the House and got to his desk.

So: what a unity candidate!

[jimbogumbo]

Biden just said, in an interview, that he'd veto M4A if it managed to pass through the House and got to his desk.

So: what a unity candidate!

First, thanks for your pm re your opposition to Buttegieg. Didn't find it for awhile, as my ridiculous email quarantined it.

From Biden's interview:

Biden seemed to be hesitant about the projected cost of such a bill and whether implementing it would affect citizens in the short-term.
"I would veto anything that delays providing the security and the certainty of health care being available now. If they got that through and by some miracle, there's an epiphany that occurred and some miracle occurred that said, 'OK, it's passed.' Then you got to look at the cost," Biden said.

The former vice president continued:

"I want to know how did they find the $35 trillion dollars? What is that doing? Is it going to significantly raise taxes on the middle class? Which it will. What's going to happen? Look, my opposition isn't to the principle that you should have Medicare. Health care should be a right in America. My opposition relates to whether or not: a.) it's doable. Two, what the cost is and what the consequences for the rest of the budget are. How are you going to find $35 trillion dollars over the next 10 years without having profound impacts on everything from taxes for middle class and working class people as well as the impact on the rest of the budget?"

[Anselm]

Regarding the cost I can offer this tidbit.   In 2006 I paid out of pocket for COBRA.  The cheapest option with BCBS was $60 per month with a high deductible and that was maybe $3000.  That lead me to two conclusions.  Many of the millions of people without health insurance could have afforded that.  Secondly, the federal government could have paid for that small amount and then we would all be covered, including the smaller group of people with serious pre-existing conditions.   

[mamselle]

There are different levels of "afford," however. For some people, that $60.00 buys a week's groceries.

The theoretical need for health coverage for a non-present illness or injury vs. three kids crying for milk on their cereal in the AM might need to be factored into that part of it. (Just sayin'.)

But, yes, I agree otherwise; governmental coverage could probably handle it.


M.

[clean]

Not to divert this thread to the olden and now defunct ACA debates...but...

There are different levels of "afford," however. For some people, that $60.00 buys a week's groceries.

My students argue that they can not afford to even rent a text for $40 a term, while they surf the  net or texting about the next party on their cell phones and try to avoid knocking over their Starbucks coffee. 

You never NEED insurance until you NEED insurance.  By then, it is too late, so clearly it is the responsibility of the government (or charity hospital) to provide what you were unable/unwilling to provide for yourself, right?

Anyway, when this first reached the Supreme Court, I m pretty sure that it was ruled that requiring health insurance was not an abuse of power by the US government.  (And the other arguments about it were thwarted because it was dealt with through tax penalties... which were then eliminated by the current administration/congress, again calling into question the constitutionality of the issues as there was now no tax penalty for failing to carry coverage). 

IF Health Care is a Right (as I often hear these days) Then why isnt Having Health Insurance a Responsibility?

Im pretty sure in my state, IF you get pulled over and dont have liability insurance, they can tow your car (at your expense, of course) and you walk home (or text your buddies to pick you up on their way home from Starbucks or the party (see above).  Driving is a privilege, having liability insurance is a responsibility ( and the law!)

To take the extreme case, and quote my second favorite (after Darth Vader) screen character, Ebeneezer Scrooge... IF you dont have insurance, go to the charity hospital.  Cant make it to the charity hospitality, then Scrooge would advocate that you "Decrease the Surplus Population." 

Call me Clean.  A supporter of the ACA, including the mandate that people have insurance, even if subsidized by the government for those that are at the lower end of the income scales. 

So yes,

There are different levels of "afford,"

and setting those levels is not necessarily a rational decision but often a 'convenience' decision.  (milk for their store bought, brand name cereal for instance...  Full price Captain Crunch??? BS! --buy off brand Ensign Krunch and THEN we will talk!.  Oreo Cookies?  Hell Hydrox cookies (that's what I got!) ... and why are you feeding them cookies anyway?

but I rant.
Ignore and resume normal programming. 

[mamselle]

Maybe the higher-end stores carry off-brand items, but most regular grocery stores--or the tiny stores near enough to the projects that you can get there and back without a car, with each kid carrying a bag of groceries--do not.

For the rest, it just sounds like our experiences and our outlook about them have differed.

That's OK.

M.

[mahagonny]

IF Health Care is a Right (as I often hear these days) Then why isnt Having Health Insurance a Responsibility?

If having health insurance is a right and also kicking in to it is a requirement then it should be priced the same irrespective of whether you have have employment designated as full time, employment designated as part-time, or no employment. Or, if it were treated like progressive tax, then more 'affordable' to those with less ability to pay.


Whereas...

If health insurance were treated like car insurance then people who neglect to take care of themselves would pay more.

[mahagonny]

Paying into the system already is a responsibility if you consider the part time worker who gets no health insurance from work but provides cost savings to this employer who then pays part of the premium of other employees as well as giving them access to buyer pool. While this part time worker who doesn't purchase health insurance is more expensive to the system if he uses free care but doesn't go to the doctor regularly, only when he has a health crisis.

[clean]

Maybe the higher-end stores carry off-brand items, but most regular grocery stores--or the tiny stores near enough to the projects that you can get there and back without a car, with each kid carrying a bag of groceries--do not.

Even Dollar General (or The Dollar Store, I confuse them) have their own off brands.  From my investment research, these stores are often found 

near enough to the projects that you can get there and back without a car, with each kid carrying a bag of groceries--do not.