2020 Elections

[Treehugger]

[quote auhor=spork link=topic=203.msg42636#msg42636 date=1598910237]
A large chunk of Trump supporters are people who are the equivalent of the kindergartener who breaks the toy when it becomes some other child's turn to play with it -- the "if I can't have what I believe I deserve, regardless of whatever terrible personal choices I've made, then burn down the whole system" mentality. They blame people who are similarly poor and structurally disadvantaged but non-white for their own circumstances and are happy to destroy the very institutions they themselves are dependent on. It's one version of crabs in a bucket syndrome: preference for blowing up the whole bucket with themselves in it to letting a few crabs escape. Trump, being a sociopath, has an inherent understanding of how to use this to his advantage.

I have my own version of this, but yours is rated G. Mine would get an R rating if it were a college coming of age movie.

A large chunk of Trump supporters are people who are the equivalent of the kids who didn't get invited to the big party. So these kids get high/drunk and crash the party wearing wearing t-shirts that say "Eat Me" or other non-conformist garb that projects their non-conformism/rebellion and outward rejection of the norms that left them out of the party, and they go through the party trying to be cleverly obnoxious or at the very least yelling "Hail Satan." Their night ends by defecating in the pool, before getting kicked out.

They really do see themselves as the down-trodden caddies in Caddyshack or the members of Delta House in Animal House. Like in those two movies, a heroic deed is to ruin the party when they are not invited. Today, the big party is the global technologically connected diverse world where some people are simply not capable of thriving, and they were not invited to the party. All they can do is defecate in the pool and ruin the parade, so at least the party isn't as fun and the un-invited feel a sense of empowerment in ruining the party where they were not invited, giving them a temporary sense of equality. Many of us are Dean Wormer, and Trump supporters think they are Delta House.

If we can't figure out a way of including the disabled in our society, we deserve what we get.

We should have nuclear war, because God deserves a fresh start.

I should post this on "What You Think is Funny (but know you shouldn't)" thread. That said, ha ha ha.

[mahagonny]

Wow, lightning's method for how Joe could win is quite cynical. Instead of giving up on telling people the truth that would cost you votes, how about telling people the truth that could win you votes? Instead of intentionally promising something to HEWM's that is unrealistic, why not desist from promising something to another group (blacks) that is a fairy tale, and people should be able to see it.
As it is, Trump will be getting the votes of the HEWM's who feel like crap about themselves anytime race is mentioned, as you accurately note, by doing absolutely nothing. Those votes should be available to anyone with common sense enough to say 'just because you are white is no reason for you to be assessed with the job of changing yourself in order to bring minorities more success. It wouldn't work anyway. So, yes, of course, black lives matter greatly, but that doesn't mean someone is doing one race an injustice to another by not being a member of that race. that would be more divisiveness; bringing each other down. What we need to stop. But the current racial tension is absolutely being exacerbated by the presence of DJT. It hurts all of us. He is a hothead, a name caller, a juvenile. He is not a uniting influence. He must go.'
By saying this he risks alienating the white academics who are reading Robin D'Angelo and Ibram Kendi and the mobs of demonstrators in Portland OR. Good. You're never competing for votes at the center of the political spectrum when you're worried about them.
Also I would advise him if I could, no matter what you're asked in a debate, do not repeat the words 'systemic racism' or 'white superiority.' Joe Biden isn't going to try to do something about these newspeak bludgeon-term issues and everyone knows it. Repeating them gives them life. Let them die a natural slow death. Let the real Joe Biden stand up, Focus on peace, prosperity, stable, brotherly love, non-corrupt government.

[marshwiggle]

Invite them to rallies where they burn pink slips, layoff notices, bankruptcy notices, medical bill invoices, etc and take turns taking a sledge hammer to a robot. Make them feel empowered in aligning themselves with the Dems. Galvanize them through their frustration. Scapegoat the pharmaceutical companies, the HMOs, Wall Street, the efficiency experts who recommend layoffs. Tell the HEWM that nothing is their fault. Never mind the prosperity that ensued as a result of globalization and everyone's complicity, including the HEWM who got to shop for items that became very inexpensive as a result of global supply chains, automation, and telecommunication. Make it clear to the HEWM that Trump and the Republicans gave big tax breaks to the people who laid them off. None of what I said is entirely true and has many half-baked half-truths (euphemism for lie). But, again, who cares. Truth does not get anyone elected. Furthermore, truth now needs power to be considered truth. Get the power first. So truth has a chance.  Don't offer real solutions when trying to get elected. Offer the HEWM dignity from making a simple choice between candidates. This can be done without alienating the ones that have already decided to vote straight democratic. Does this sound like the 2016 Republican election playbook? It worked for them, didn't it?

How is this any different than the situation for the HEBMs in Flint Michigan or anywhere else? Are the Democrats going to radically improve their lives?

[lightning]

Invite them to rallies where they burn pink slips, layoff notices, bankruptcy notices, medical bill invoices, etc and take turns taking a sledge hammer to a robot. Make them feel empowered in aligning themselves with the Dems. Galvanize them through their frustration. Scapegoat the pharmaceutical companies, the HMOs, Wall Street, the efficiency experts who recommend layoffs. Tell the HEWM that nothing is their fault. Never mind the prosperity that ensued as a result of globalization and everyone's complicity, including the HEWM who got to shop for items that became very inexpensive as a result of global supply chains, automation, and telecommunication. Make it clear to the HEWM that Trump and the Republicans gave big tax breaks to the people who laid them off. None of what I said is entirely true and has many half-baked half-truths (euphemism for lie). But, again, who cares. Truth does not get anyone elected. Furthermore, truth now needs power to be considered truth. Get the power first. So truth has a chance.  Don't offer real solutions when trying to get elected. Offer the HEWM dignity from making a simple choice between candidates. This can be done without alienating the ones that have already decided to vote straight democratic. Does this sound like the 2016 Republican election playbook? It worked for them, didn't it?

How is this any different than the situation for the HEBMs in Flint Michigan or anywhere else? Are the Democrats going to radically improve their lives?

If the concern is about winning the election, then the focus has to be on getting the votes of the displaced white male with only a high school education. I'm pretty sure the Democrats can count on the votes from minority populations, whose votes don't need to be flipped.

[marshwiggle]

Invite them to rallies where they burn pink slips, layoff notices, bankruptcy notices, medical bill invoices, etc and take turns taking a sledge hammer to a robot. Make them feel empowered in aligning themselves with the Dems. Galvanize them through their frustration. Scapegoat the pharmaceutical companies, the HMOs, Wall Street, the efficiency experts who recommend layoffs. Tell the HEWM that nothing is their fault. Never mind the prosperity that ensued as a result of globalization and everyone's complicity, including the HEWM who got to shop for items that became very inexpensive as a result of global supply chains, automation, and telecommunication. Make it clear to the HEWM that Trump and the Republicans gave big tax breaks to the people who laid them off. None of what I said is entirely true and has many half-baked half-truths (euphemism for lie). But, again, who cares. Truth does not get anyone elected. Furthermore, truth now needs power to be considered truth. Get the power first. So truth has a chance.  Don't offer real solutions when trying to get elected. Offer the HEWM dignity from making a simple choice between candidates. This can be done without alienating the ones that have already decided to vote straight democratic. Does this sound like the 2016 Republican election playbook? It worked for them, didn't it?

How is this any different than the situation for the HEBMs in Flint Michigan or anywhere else? Are the Democrats going to radically improve their lives?

If the concern is about winning the election, then the focus has to be on getting the votes of the displaced white male with only a high school education. I'm pretty sure the Democrats can count on the votes from minority populations, whose votes don't need to be flipped.

Oh right. If you don't vote for Biden, "You ain't black". Because minority populations are monolithic.

[mahagonny]

Invite them to rallies where they burn pink slips, layoff notices, bankruptcy notices, medical bill invoices, etc and take turns taking a sledge hammer to a robot. Make them feel empowered in aligning themselves with the Dems. Galvanize them through their frustration. Scapegoat the pharmaceutical companies, the HMOs, Wall Street, the efficiency experts who recommend layoffs. Tell the HEWM that nothing is their fault. Never mind the prosperity that ensued as a result of globalization and everyone's complicity, including the HEWM who got to shop for items that became very inexpensive as a result of global supply chains, automation, and telecommunication. Make it clear to the HEWM that Trump and the Republicans gave big tax breaks to the people who laid them off. None of what I said is entirely true and has many half-baked half-truths (euphemism for lie). But, again, who cares. Truth does not get anyone elected. Furthermore, truth now needs power to be considered truth. Get the power first. So truth has a chance.  Don't offer real solutions when trying to get elected. Offer the HEWM dignity from making a simple choice between candidates. This can be done without alienating the ones that have already decided to vote straight democratic. Does this sound like the 2016 Republican election playbook? It worked for them, didn't it?

How is this any different than the situation for the HEBMs in Flint Michigan or anywhere else? Are the Democrats going to radically improve their lives?

If the concern is about winning the election, then the focus has to be on getting the votes of the displaced white male with only a high school education. I'm pretty sure the Democrats can count on the votes from minority populations, whose votes don't need to be flipped.

Oh right. If you don't vote for Biden, "You ain't black". Because minority populations are monolithic.

I wonder how often Biden uses the word 'ain't.'

[writingprof]

I wonder how often Biden uses the word 'ain't.'

Oh, "middle-class Joe" is folksy as f---.  "You ain't black."  "He's wants to put y'all back in chains."  I feel like I'm watching Song of the South. 

Never mind, that's cancelled.

[mahagonny]

I wonder how often Biden uses the word 'ain't.'

Oh, "middle-class Joe" is folksy as f---.  "You ain't black."  "He's wants to put y'all back in chains."  I feel like I'm watching Song of the South. 

Never mind, that's cancelled.

Yet I do not hear black people say 'ain't' very often. Not these days. Not the ones I know. Perhaps he is showing his age.

[nebo113]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

[mahagonny]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest. Do they actually speak of 'colored people?' I haven't heard that one much since the sixties. Just curious.

[Parasaurolophus]

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest. Do they actually speak of 'colored people?' I haven't heard that one much since the sixties. Just curious.

No, they don't. The usual convention now is people-first language--so, 'people of colour'. But I think beo113 had their tongue firmly in their cheek as they adoped the voice of people in their county.

I dunno if most people vote out of self-interest. It's plausible, but so are the hypotheses that most people vote by convention (because that's how their parents voted, or people around them vote, etc.), by sense of group-identity, or any number of other criteria. If they do vote out of self-interest, then it's clear that they're widely mistaken about their own interests.

[RatGuy]

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest. Do they actually speak of 'colored people?' I haven't heard that one much since the sixties. Just curious.

No, they don't. The usual convention now is people-first language--so, 'people of colour'. But I think beo113 had their tongue firmly in their cheek as they adoped the voice of people in their county.

I dunno if most people vote out of self-interest. It's plausible, but so are the hypotheses that most people vote by convention (because that's how their parents voted, or people around them vote, etc.), by sense of group-identity, or any number of other criteria. If they do vote out of self-interest, then it's clear that they're widely mistaken about their own interests.

Someone recently observed that some people "vote for Trump because of what he does to others, rather than what he does for them."  I don't know if that's considered self-interest. But I'm reminded of an Atlantic piece about the Tea Party back in like '08, where Tupelo residents rejected Thad Cochran's plan for federal funding for an updated sewer and water system because "for every dollar spent on us, someone else gets a dollar." The Tea Party candidate pushed the narrative that politics help undeserving people, so it's best that no one gets any help.

[writingprof]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

I don't know about "coming for their jobs," but the rest is a pretty accurate summary of the stakes of American elections these days.  But, by all means, mock their fears in the months before you do the very things they're afraid of. 

[Stockmann]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest.

Nah. There are plenty of examples of turkeys voting for Christmas. I'm reminded of a conversation I had about American politics, in which I said that Americans voting for any kind of radicalism was like pushing your Ferrari off a cliff because it's got a flat tire. Not that I'm not saying flats don't require immediate action or that it's not a real problem. My friend answered that clearly a lot of Americans don't think they have a Ferrari, and I said that objetively they do - I noted that American wages are very high by global standards, unemployment is very low by developed world standards (this was pre-pandemic), etc. In a somewhat related conversation with the same friend, I noted how foolish it seemed to me so many people vote as if they had nothing to lose - in the developed world, essentially everyone has a lot to lose, and a large majority in middle income countries has a lot to lose. Maybe in Yemen, simultaneously facing war, famine and a pandemic, a majority has nothing to lose.

[mahagonny]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest.

Nah. There are plenty of examples of turkeys voting for Christmas. I'm reminded of a conversation I had about American politics, in which I said that Americans voting for any kind of radicalism was like pushing your Ferrari off a cliff because it's got a flat tire. Not that I'm not saying flats don't require immediate action or that it's not a real problem. My friend answered that clearly a lot of Americans don't think they have a Ferrari, and I said that objetively they do - I noted that American wages are very high by global standards, unemployment is very low by developed world standards (this was pre-pandemic), etc. In a somewhat related conversation with the same friend, I noted how foolish it seemed to me so many people vote as if they had nothing to lose - in the developed world, essentially everyone has a lot to lose, and a large majority in middle income countries has a lot to lose. Maybe in Yemen, simultaneously facing war, famine and a pandemic, a majority has nothing to lose.

Not sure I get your point exactly. Well, maybe people vote in self interest that's miscalculated. But they should be within their right to try to vote in self interest. I don't think Ibram Xendi's going to get a federal Antiracism Department under President Biden, but it's just a guess. And I think he would have under a president Elizabeth Warren. So if you're paying someone a salary to tell you and your countrymen that you're an oppressor, you might be a fool.