2020 Elections

[kaysixteen]

I would bet my entire current bank balance, squared, that those HEWMS do not use the phrase 'people of color'.   It is much more likely that some of them still do call AA people 'colored people'.   We have to face the facts wrt people like this voting against their interests that, despite Trump's propagandizing, his surrogates doing the same, and such things that make it more likely that they will not know what the truths of the matter be, and the fact that their lack of education does make it less likely that they will be able to properly analyze facts, despite all this, nonetheless it is also true that the overt condescension and contempt often either shown to people like this by people like us, OR their perception that we act this way, greatly harms our attempts to get them to see facts more clearly (including the fact that voting for Biden would be in their interests), and also motivates them to say, again, 'f*ck you, libtards', on their way to a Trump rally.   This should be obvious, and it should also be obvious that the solution to this must be a Sister Souljah moment or two for Uncle Joe, and overt attempts to reign in the nuts on the left, in the specific interest of refuting the nuts on the right.

[Stockmann]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest.

Nah. There are plenty of examples of turkeys voting for Christmas. I'm reminded of a conversation I had about American politics, in which I said that Americans voting for any kind of radicalism was like pushing your Ferrari off a cliff because it's got a flat tire. Not that I'm not saying flats don't require immediate action or that it's not a real problem. My friend answered that clearly a lot of Americans don't think they have a Ferrari, and I said that objetively they do - I noted that American wages are very high by global standards, unemployment is very low by developed world standards (this was pre-pandemic), etc. In a somewhat related conversation with the same friend, I noted how foolish it seemed to me so many people vote as if they had nothing to lose - in the developed world, essentially everyone has a lot to lose, and a large majority in middle income countries has a lot to lose. Maybe in Yemen, simultaneously facing war, famine and a pandemic, a majority has nothing to lose.

Not sure I get your point exactly. Well, maybe people vote in self interest that's miscalculated...

I think both happen - sometimes people vote in a way that is plainly, blatantly contrary to their interests (the Welsh voting for Brexit), and sometimes, as you write, people try to vote for their interests but grossly miscalculate. Anybody in a developed country who is disadvantaged and votes for radicalism probably belongs in the latter category - it's like solving a Ferrari's flat tire by pushing it off the cliff. Something that seems closely related to the latter category is people who seem to believe they have nothing to lose - smashing the system would be a rational response to such a situation, but in practice essentially nobody is in such a situation in the developed world.
Probably a lot of Venezuelans who voted for Chavez thought they had nothing to lose - and now what was once Latin America's richest country lies essentially in ruins, on the brink of famine, devastated by scarcity and hyperinflation, and facing extremely high crime rates even by Latin American standards.

[Parasaurolophus]

I would bet my entire current bank balance, squared, that those HEWMS do not use the phrase 'people of color'.

Oh, I see. I misread: I thought you were asking what the accepted usage was, rather than about what the HEWMS said.

[mahagonny]

I would bet my entire current bank balance, squared, that those HEWMS do not use the phrase 'people of color'.

Oh, I see. I misread: I thought you were asking what the accepted usage was, rather than about what the HEWMS said.

Every ten years or so you become wrong for what you've been saying for those ten years. It ought to be an incredible journey in personal growth. Well, I'll say whatever people require with a smile, but I reserve the right to have my own view of the history of it. It might be story of how people of color see themselves differently over time, or it might be a story of the evolution of white guilt and all the wonderful illumination it's given us.

[marshwiggle]

Not sure I get your point exactly. Well, maybe people vote in self interest that's miscalculated...

I think both happen - sometimes people vote in a way that is plainly, blatantly contrary to their interests (the Welsh voting for Brexit), and sometimes, as you write, people try to vote for their interests but grossly miscalculate.

Even this assumes that a voter's "interest" is essentially unidimensional. That's rarely the case in politics. For instance, if one party plans to run a deficit to fund more social programs, and the other plans to cut social programs but balance the budget, each one offers something in the voter's interest and something contrary to the voter's interest.

(And, in most of these discussions, "interest" is usually seen as primarily financial. If one party is going to shut down a factory to protect the environment, and the other is going to keep it going, then for someone working in the factory, or living in a town where the factory is the primary industry, the person's health and income may be competing interests.)

[dismalist]

Not sure I get your point exactly. Well, maybe people vote in self interest that's miscalculated...

I think both happen - sometimes people vote in a way that is plainly, blatantly contrary to their interests (the Welsh voting for Brexit), and sometimes, as you write, people try to vote for their interests but grossly miscalculate.

Even this assumes that a voter's "interest" is essentially unidimensional. That's rarely the case in politics. For instance, if one party plans to run a deficit to fund more social programs, and the other plans to cut social programs but balance the budget, each one offers something in the voter's interest and something contrary to the voter's interest.

(And, in most of these discussions, "interest" is usually seen as primarily financial. If one party is going to shut down a factory to protect the environment, and the other is going to keep it going, then for someone working in the factory, or living in a town where the factory is the primary industry, the person's health and income may be competing interests.)

And a rational voter has absolutely no incentive to become informed [who knows the intricacies of the US tax code?] because there is zero probability of him or her determining the outcome of an election. Hence, there's plenty of room for emotive stuff [A "We're all in this together" kind of lie.]

Especially given this, it is dysfunctional to make potential voters for one's own party feel bad for being primitive, simplistic, stupid, and so on. The deplorables opinion is still rampant.

[mahagonny]

I would bet my entire current bank balance, squared, that those HEWMS do not use the phrase 'people of color'.   It is much more likely that some of them still do call AA people 'colored people'.   We have to face the facts wrt people like this voting against their interests that, despite Trump's propagandizing, his surrogates doing the same, and such things that make it more likely that they will not know what the truths of the matter be, and the fact that their lack of education does make it less likely that they will be able to properly analyze facts, despite all this, nonetheless it is also true that the overt condescension and contempt often either shown to people like this by people like us, OR their perception that we act this way, greatly harms our attempts to get them to see facts more clearly (including the fact that voting for Biden would be in their interests), and also motivates them to say, again, 'f*ck you, libtards', on their way to a Trump rally.   This should be obvious, and it should also be obvious that the solution to this must be a Sister Souljah moment or two for Uncle Joe, and overt attempts to reign in the nuts on the left, in the specific interest of refuting the nuts on the right.

Here is where I will take full advantage of being adjunct, and I suggest you do to. The blame for academia being a polarizing force in society does not go to us.  We are less liberal that the tenure track, perhaps not by a big margin, but in any case, with few exceptions, we are severely hampered in our ability to affect trends in higher education, and  the obvious part, we have to be good acquiescent followers in order to keep getting hired. Expect more consciousness-raising videos ridiculing white culture and values, inserting racism into every topic, etc. as part of our diversity and anti-racism work.

[kaysixteen]

You're right, adjuncts do not have much clout, much ability to influence bad trends in academia, trends which work against liberals' electoral fortunes, because there are a whole lot more HEWMs than us.  I am not sure what we can do about this, but I will not be silent with respect to trying to convince educated liberals not to act like this, in order that we all might better convince the HEWMs to vote more intelligently.  In my own church, this is very hard, because most of these people, though I guess/ think most of them respect my education and have enjoyed some of my historical teaching I have had limited ability to do over the years (though this has likely waned), but most of them will simply not pay any attention to my political and economic views, because, well... abortion.... socialism....whatever.   I do not know how to confront or deal with this.

[spork]

You're right, adjuncts do not have much clout, much ability to influence bad trends in academia, trends which work against liberals' electoral fortunes, because there are a whole lot more HEWMs than us.  I am not sure what we can do about this, but I will not be silent with respect to trying to convince educated liberals not to act like this, in order that we all might better convince the HEWMs to vote more intelligently.  In my own church, this is very hard, because most of these people, though I guess/ think most of them respect my education and have enjoyed some of my historical teaching I have had limited ability to do over the years (though this has likely waned), but most of them will simply not pay any attention to my political and economic views, because, well... abortion.... socialism....whatever.   I do not know how to confront or deal with this.

I would show them the video of Reza Aslan discussing white evangelical support for Trump and asking them what they think of it.

[nebo113]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

Most people vote from a point of view of self-interest. Do they actually speak of 'colored people?' I haven't heard that one much since the sixties. Just curious.

Much more subtle....like taking out the black pres when he was pres.....Oh yeah....confederate flags in houses and nig......

[nebo113]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

I don't know about "coming for their jobs," but the rest is a pretty accurate summary of the stakes of American elections these days.  But, by all means, mock their fears in the months before you do the very things they're afraid of.

OK MODS:   I realize I'm going to cross a line here, so I accept any punishment you deem fit.  Writingprof....you are simply full of shit and don't deserve a reasoned response, since you are incapable of rational thought.  That is all.

[nebo113]

You're right, adjuncts do not have much clout, much ability to influence bad trends in academia, trends which work against liberals' electoral fortunes, because there are a whole lot more HEWMs than us.  I am not sure what we can do about this, but I will not be silent with respect to trying to convince educated liberals not to act like this, in order that we all might better convince the HEWMs to vote more intelligently. In my own church, this is very hard, because most of these people, though I guess/ think most of them respect my education and have enjoyed some of my historical teaching I have had limited ability to do over the years (though this has likely waned), but most of them will simply not pay any attention to my political and economic views, because, well... abortion.... socialism....whatever.   I do not know how to confront or deal with this.

My conservative, Christian, confederate flag waving cousins know this about me.  One even called me that Obama woman...and they still love me (some of them).  I think it is because, oddly enough, i respect them and don't belittle or argue with them.  We let sleeping dogs lie.  However,  they will continue to vote for Trump, until pink lipsticked pigs fly.  They will continue to vote for county council members who continue to lead the county toward financial ruin.  They will continue to vote for school board members who decided in an emergency meeting 3 days before school was to open, to go totally online....without complete lack of preparation.  There is  a sense of helplessness here;  a sense that it's been this way for so long, that it won't/can't change.  As in many mid western communities where agriculture has been the economic lifeblood, we've been a one industry county for 80 years.....until we weren't.  It's sad and depressing.....and covid continues to divide us.

[mahagonny]

You're right, adjuncts do not have much clout, much ability to influence bad trends in academia, trends which work against liberals' electoral fortunes, because there are a whole lot more HEWMs than us.  I am not sure what we can do about this, but I will not be silent with respect to trying to convince educated liberals not to act like this, in order that we all might better convince the HEWMs to vote more intelligently.  In my own church, this is very hard, because most of these people, though I guess/ think most of them respect my education and have enjoyed some of my historical teaching I have had limited ability to do over the years (though this has likely waned), but most of them will simply not pay any attention to my political and economic views, because, well... abortion.... socialism....whatever.   I do not know how to confront or deal with this.

I would show them the video of Reza Aslan discussing white evangelical support for Trump and asking them what they think of it.

I would show them that and then this also. Then they wouldn't feel like they're being pressured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyufeHJlodE

I'm pretty sure when Rezan says evangelicals have admitted they no longer care about the morality of the candidate, the red state church attending HEWM's would answer, the left, having no belief in absolute morality (that that comes directly from God) are in no position to challenge them on that. But rather than articulate it that way, they'd just say 'and who do think is better than Trump? Hillary, who uses her joke of a marriage to make herself look respectable?'

[secundem_artem]

I always get a kick out of those voters who aver that their vote is determined by a candidate's or party's policies. 

I had a Kenyan friend in grad school who told me that in Kenya, Luo voters vote for Luo candidates, Kikuyu voters vote for Kikuyu candidates and so on down the ballot.

Thanks to Facebook and other social media, Americans have been able to create tribes where none previously existed.

So, assuming we ever did vote for policy, we now vote for the leader of our political tribe, regardless of what they actually stand for.  It's a lousy way to run a country, but it's sure easier than thinking.

[marshwiggle]

I always get a kick out of those voters who aver that their vote is determined by a candidate's or party's policies. 

I had a Kenyan friend in grad school who told me that in Kenya, Luo voters vote for Luo candidates, Kikuyu voters vote for Kikuyu candidates and so on down the ballot.

Thanks to Facebook and other social media, Americans have been able to create tribes where none previously existed.

So, assuming we ever did vote for policy, we now vote for the leader of our political tribe, regardless of what they actually stand for.  It's a lousy way to run a country, but it's sure easier than thinking.

Political parties, party membership, and partisan voting have been around for centuries. The percentage of voters who aren't automatically going to vote for a specific party has probably been relatively small for most of that time.

How many people here planning to vote Democrat this time have voted Republican any time in the last 20 (or more) years?