2020 Elections

[apl68]

You're right, adjuncts do not have much clout, much ability to influence bad trends in academia, trends which work against liberals' electoral fortunes, because there are a whole lot more HEWMs than us.  I am not sure what we can do about this, but I will not be silent with respect to trying to convince educated liberals not to act like this, in order that we all might better convince the HEWMs to vote more intelligently.  In my own church, this is very hard, because most of these people, though I guess/ think most of them respect my education and have enjoyed some of my historical teaching I have had limited ability to do over the years (though this has likely waned), but most of them will simply not pay any attention to my political and economic views, because, well... abortion.... socialism....whatever.   I do not know how to confront or deal with this.

I would show them the video of Reza Aslan discussing white evangelical support for Trump and asking them what they think of it.

I would show them that and then this also. Then they wouldn't feel like they're being pressured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyufeHJlodE

I'm pretty sure when Rezan says evangelicals have admitted they no longer care about the morality of the candidate, the red state church attending HEWM's would answer, the left, having no belief in absolute morality (that that comes directly from God) are in no position to challenge them on that. But rather than articulate it that way, they'd just say 'and who do think is better than Trump? Hillary, who uses her joke of a marriage to make herself look respectable?'

That's the thing that saddens and worries me so much about the support for Trump among so many church members.  They are so frightened and so convinced that they are in need of a political "protector" that they are prepared to support absolutely anybody who offers to fill that role.  They're seeking protection from a Godless man instead of relying on God.  It's a very bad sign for their spiritual condition.  They--and all of their fellow church members who haven't fallen for the delusion--are going to pay a high price for that false god of theirs.

It's enough to make me suspect that Trump is the Devil's trial run prototype for the Antichrist.

[apl68]

I always get a kick out of those voters who aver that their vote is determined by a candidate's or party's policies. 

I had a Kenyan friend in grad school who told me that in Kenya, Luo voters vote for Luo candidates, Kikuyu voters vote for Kikuyu candidates and so on down the ballot.

Thanks to Facebook and other social media, Americans have been able to create tribes where none previously existed.

So, assuming we ever did vote for policy, we now vote for the leader of our political tribe, regardless of what they actually stand for.  It's a lousy way to run a country, but it's sure easier than thinking.

Political parties, party membership, and partisan voting have been around for centuries. The percentage of voters who aren't automatically going to vote for a specific party has probably been relatively small for most of that time.

How many people here planning to vote Democrat this time have voted Republican any time in the last 20 (or more) years?

Well, you're right that there's nothing truly unprecdented about this sort of thing, but artem's got a point about how social media has aggravated existing political divides.  It's turned old-fashioned partisan divides into atavistic tribal allegiances.  It's one of several ways in which our level of civilization seems to be running backwards now.

[ciao_yall]

Well, you're right that there's nothing truly unprecdented about this sort of thing, but artem's got a point about how social media has aggravated existing political divides.  It's turned old-fashioned partisan divides into atavistic tribal allegiances.  It's one of several ways in which our level of civilization seems to be running backwards now.

Agreed.

WaPo had a really elegant suggestion - require all political posts to be seen by everyone, not just a targeted audience. That way, if something were ridiculous or partisan, everyone would see it. Not just the true believers whose ideas would be reinforced.

[onehappyunicorn]

I always get a kick out of those voters who aver that their vote is determined by a candidate's or party's policies. 

I had a Kenyan friend in grad school who told me that in Kenya, Luo voters vote for Luo candidates, Kikuyu voters vote for Kikuyu candidates and so on down the ballot.

Thanks to Facebook and other social media, Americans have been able to create tribes where none previously existed.

So, assuming we ever did vote for policy, we now vote for the leader of our political tribe, regardless of what they actually stand for.  It's a lousy way to run a country, but it's sure easier than thinking.

Political parties, party membership, and partisan voting have been around for centuries. The percentage of voters who aren't automatically going to vote for a specific party has probably been relatively small for most of that time.

How many people here planning to vote Democrat this time have voted Republican any time in the last 20 (or more) years?

I have in local and state elections when I have known some of the candidates fairly well and when I agreed with at least a majority of their policies. I don't much care what a candidate's stand is on certain issues is if they have no power to affect change in said issue, unless of course their stand is horribly vitriolic. I freely admit that once the Tea Party folks started getting power I have progressively voted more and more straight party line D. I sincerely wish it was different and that we had more than two parties in this country.

[apl68]

I always get a kick out of those voters who aver that their vote is determined by a candidate's or party's policies. 

I had a Kenyan friend in grad school who told me that in Kenya, Luo voters vote for Luo candidates, Kikuyu voters vote for Kikuyu candidates and so on down the ballot.

Thanks to Facebook and other social media, Americans have been able to create tribes where none previously existed.

So, assuming we ever did vote for policy, we now vote for the leader of our political tribe, regardless of what they actually stand for.  It's a lousy way to run a country, but it's sure easier than thinking.

Political parties, party membership, and partisan voting have been around for centuries. The percentage of voters who aren't automatically going to vote for a specific party has probably been relatively small for most of that time.

How many people here planning to vote Democrat this time have voted Republican any time in the last 20 (or more) years?

I have in local and state elections when I have known some of the candidates fairly well and when I agreed with at least a majority of their policies. I don't much care what a candidate's stand is on certain issues is if they have no power to affect change in said issue, unless of course their stand is horribly vitriolic. I freely admit that once the Tea Party folks started getting power I have progressively voted more and more straight party line D. I sincerely wish it was different and that we had more than two parties in this country.

I wish we had two parties that could be truer to the best in their own respective heritages.  They each have an honorable past.  Their presents are another thing.

[writingprof]

I wish we had two parties that could be truer to the best in their own respective heritages.  They each have an honorable past.  Their presents are another thing.

It seems to me that much of the Democratic party's honorable past consists of racist populism.  Heck, so might their future: Political coalitions evolve.  The important thing is that a nation with an education gulf as wide as ours will always produce populist political movements, and nations with multiple races will always struggle with the politics of racism. 

[Descartes]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

I don't know about "coming for their jobs," but the rest is a pretty accurate summary of the stakes of American elections these days.  But, by all means, mock their fears in the months before you do the very things they're afraid of.

Yep. 

Men in dresses, athiests, and blacks don't bother me or alarm me.  Socialists and the challenging of our way of life do. 

[ciao_yall]

I live in HEWM country;  rural, poor, and maybe 3% people of color. My county will vote for Biden when hell freezes over, cuz all those colored people and gay people and men in dresses and jesus haters are comin' for their jobs.   There's simply no way to put a shiny academic gloss on the way many of my kinfolk view the world:  out to get them and their white, Christian way of life.

I don't know about "coming for their jobs," but the rest is a pretty accurate summary of the stakes of American elections these days.  But, by all means, mock their fears in the months before you do the very things they're afraid of.

Yep. 

Men in dresses, athiests, and blacks don't bother me or alarm me.  Socialists and the challenging of our way of life do.

Because.... a for-profit health care system that leaves people bankrupt or dead; rampant gun ownership; homelessness and poverty really should not be challenged.

[writingprof]

Because.... a for-profit health care system that leaves people bankrupt or dead; rampant gun ownership; homelessness and poverty really should not be challenged.

I just did a quick study, and it turns out that every kind of healthcare system leaves people dead.  As for guns, I wonder if you would take them from "B"lack people, too.  That sounds kind of racist.

[jimbogumbo]

Because.... a for-profit health care system that leaves people bankrupt or dead; rampant gun ownership; homelessness and poverty really should not be challenged.

I just did a quick study, and it turns out that every kind of healthcare system leaves people dead.  As for guns, I wonder if you would take them from "B"lack people, too.  That sounds kind of racist.

That is in fact why California passed gun laws in the late 60's and early 70's. Blacks Panthers were openly carrying, as protection.

[jimbogumbo]

Because.... a for-profit health care system that leaves people bankrupt or dead; rampant gun ownership; homelessness and poverty really should not be challenged.

I just did a quick study, and it turns out that every kind of healthcare system leaves people dead.  As for guns, I wonder if you would take them from "B"lack people, too.  That sounds kind of racist.

And they also carried into the state capitol. Sound familiar?

https://calmatters.org/explainers/california-gun-laws-policy-explained/

That is in fact why California passed gun laws in the late 60's and early 70's. Blacks Panthers were openly carrying, as protection.

[Parasaurolophus]

Because.... a for-profit health care system that leaves people bankrupt or dead; rampant gun ownership; homelessness and poverty really should not be challenged.

I just did a quick study, and it turns out that every kind of healthcare system leaves people dead.

Some leave more dead and bankrupt than others.

[dismalist]

Because.... a for-profit health care system that leaves people bankrupt or dead; rampant gun ownership; homelessness and poverty really should not be challenged.

I just did a quick study, and it turns out that every kind of healthcare system leaves people dead.

Some leave more dead and bankrupt than others.

Look, comparing health systems takes lots of work, and requires understanding of more than one discipline. Buzz words will not do.

An imperfect catch-all result, from the Wikipedia entry for Race and Health in the US:

The vast majority of studies focus on the black-white contrast, but a rapidly growing literature describes variations in health status among America's increasingly diverse racial populations. Today, Asian Americans live the longest (86.3 years), followed by Latinos (81.9 years), whites (78.6 years), Native Americans (77.4 years), and African Americans (75.0 years).

Looks like those rich Asian Americans and rich Latino's discriminate against poor Whites and other poor minorities! :-)

[kaysixteen]

Random observations:

1) I used to be a Republican, did not change registration till 2010, voted for Republican candidates consistently through 2004.   When asked why I changed, I usually say something like 'I got bitten in the ass by reality'-- as Keynes said, 'when the facts change I change my mind-- what do you do, sir?'

2)  apl is right to note that Trump is and continues to do enormous damage to the evangelical church.   Many  Millennials and Gen Zers, even those raised in evangelical homes, are running away from the church in disgust, and many will not be back.   Given the manifest sins and malfeasance of Americans, I generally refer to Trump as God's judgment against America.

3) I will look  at those suggested videos soon, but the question more properly would be, not whether I should give such videos, assorted literature, etc., to my church friends to watch/ read, but how might I get them to do that?

[little bongo]

I found you can possibly accomplish, and definitely learn, a great deal just by talking and listening to the people who do a lot of work in your area--my area is mostly red, although I am seeing more Democratic signs than I did four years back. One example--the roto-rooter guy was busy in my basement, and we were getting into some deep discussions about my basement toilet, something of a fixture in this part of the state. He went on to explain that I should hold on to this toilet as long as I could, with its appropriately powerful flush, as opposed to water-saving toilets that flush less. Pipes were built a certain way to accommodate a certain amount of flush, roughly speaking.

Now this was not long after President Trump was getting mocked for going on about flushing and re-flushing toilets. And I, too, thought he was just spewing the vomit from his mind as is his wont. And at that moment with the roto-rooter guy, I realized--the President was talking about a real thing. And there were probably a lot of people listening who recognized what he was saying as a real thing. I'm not going to say, "a lot of people don't realize this about toilets"--I may be the only one on this forum who didn't know that before. But just chatting and listening, you can connect with mutual respect.