2020 Elections

[jimbogumbo]

First, I don't think there is a state in this nation in which stealing a TV is justifiable homicide.

Friend, I don't keep my TV in the yard.  If someone breaks into my house to steal it, I have both a moral and a legal right to kill him.  (Or her!)

Don't know where you live. But as an example, not in Washington State (just the first item in the list fRom the search).

https://kimatv.com/news/local/pulling-the-trigger-when-is-use-of-deadly-force-legal-part-one

Ah, yes.  I live in the benighted Trump-supporting part of the country, where all fetuses are cherished and all "B"lack people are shot by the police on sight.  We may have removed the Confederate flag from our public spaces, but it still flies in our hearts.

But, seriously, I appreciate the Washington State article.  It mentions TV-theft as a specifically insufficient reason to shoot a home-invader, but it also concedes the crucial points:

Washington state is a . . . state involving no duty to retreat, meaning that when you're in your home you can protect yourself and others and can in fact use deadly force to do so if you believe that you or someone with you is in imminent danger of bodily harm

The reality that we look at it is whether we can disprove self-defense.

Since the other party is dead, good luck disproving my claims about my state of mind.

Yep. That's why we have courts. Whether you are charged will be decided by the police and prosecutors. If tried, your guilt (or lack of proof of it) will be determined by a jury of your peers.

I just wanted to make it clear as to what the underlying principle is. Not the TV, but rather your fear.

[quasihumanist]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak about legal rights, but I don't think you have a moral right to shoot someone who is stealing your TV, even if they are in your home.
A TV can't possibly worth anything close to anyone's life.

Personally, I think the law should be changed so that you can only claim self-defense based on facts, not on your state of mind.

[writingprof]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak about legal rights, but I don't think you have a moral right to shoot someone who is stealing your TV, even if they are in your home.
A TV can't possibly worth anything close to anyone's life.

Personally, I think the law should be changed so that you can only claim self-defense based on facts, not on your state of mind.

I wonder if you've thought this out.  A person who has broken into your house doesn't announce his intentions.  ("I'm just here for the TV!")  If he does, his words are not necessarily trustworthy.

I think I would probably brandish my gun if I came home to find a robber stealing my TV.  In most cases, that should scare him off.  However, if someone breaks in in the middle of the night, they're dying, irrespective of their intentions. 

With respect to my Fora opponents, I suggest that any other policy is a victory of ideology over reality. 

[mahagonny]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak about legal rights, but I don't think you have a moral right to shoot someone who is stealing your TV, even if they are in your home.
A TV can't possibly worth anything close to anyone's life.

Personally, I think the law should be changed so that you can only claim self-defense based on facts, not on your state of mind.

I wonder if you've thought this out.  A person who has broken into your house doesn't announce his intentions.  ("I'm just here for the TV!")  If he does, his words are not necessarily trustworthy.

I think I would probably brandish my gun if I came home to find a robber stealing my TV.  In most cases, that should scare him off.  However, if someone breaks in in the middle of the night, they're dying, irrespective of their intentions. 

With respect to my Fora opponents, I suggest that any other policy is a victory of ideology over reality.

I am not strong willed enough to plan what do do in that instance. I guess I am one of those 'the meek shall inherit the earth' cases.

[Descartes]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak about legal rights, but I don't think you have a moral right to shoot someone who is stealing your TV, even if they are in your home.
A TV can't possibly worth anything close to anyone's life.

Personally, I think the law should be changed so that you can only claim self-defense based on facts, not on your state of mind.

A radical proposal: Don't break into houses (or punch cops whilst taunting "You're too big of a pussy to shoot me," ala Mike Brown) or do any of the other felonious things people get shot doing.

Then you don't have to worry about getting shot.

[Hegemony]

Also, if you're black, don't sleep in your house. Then you don't have to worry about being shot, like Breonna Taylor. In fact, just don't be black in the first place.

[jimbogumbo]

To be fair to writingprof he is in his house.

I'd also like to have been fair for Eric Garner, and I'd really like it to have been fair for Ahmaud Arbery and Tayvon Martin. I'm really tired of black men being jumped, and then killed when the people who jump them suddenly become afraid.

[Anselm]

Let us put aside our differences and unite behind Kanye West.

[nebo113]

Let us put aside our differences and unite behind Kanye West.

Writingprof would want us to know that Kanye is the B in the race.

[writingprof]

I am not strong willed enough to plan what to do in that instance. I guess I am one of those 'the meek shall inherit the earth' cases.

As long as we're throwing Bible verses around, here's another.

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

[Descartes]

Also, if you're black, don't sleep in your house. Then you don't have to worry about being shot, like Breonna Taylor. In fact, just don't be black in the first place.

Should I give you a list of white people who have been killed sleeping in their houses by the cops? 

Funny thing, that story isn't done and it has been reported that there's more working it's way public - like that her boyfriend/significant other was in fact a drug dealer, she knew it, and was involved with laundering some of the money.  Or something like that.  I really didn't follow it that closely, but after all the other incidents (like where "hands up don't shoot" turned out to be a lie) I'm absolutely not judging until all the evidence is out in the open and public.

[nebo113]

Also, if you're black, don't sleep in your house. Then you don't have to worry about being shot, like Breonna Taylor. In fact, just don't be black in the first place.

Should I give you a list of white people who have been killed sleeping in their houses by the cops? 

Apparently, the boyfriend was a registered gun owner.  Let's see:  black male drug dealer who legally owns a gun?

[Hegemony]

Funny thing, that story isn't done and it has been reported that there's more working it's way public - like that her boyfriend/significant other was in fact a drug dealer, she knew it, and was involved with laundering some of the money.  Or something like that.  I really didn't follow it that closely, but after all the other incidents (like where "hands up don't shoot" turned out to be a lie) I'm absolutely not judging until all the evidence is out in the open and public.

Last I heard, there was a thing called "rule of law" that meant that people suspected of crimes should be tried before a jury, rather than summarily executed in their beds. Even drug dealers and money launderers, hard as it is to believe — even they were supposed to get a fair trial. I have to laugh ruefully at the idea that you'll wait to see if it was fair to kill her in her bed until you can see whether her boyfriend was a drug dealer. It sure would make law enforcement easier if we just gunned down all the people we think are criminals, in the streets if need be, but if they're asleep and can't run away, even better, right?

[Economizer]

As wearing masks and social distancing are important, our politicians positions seem to be inane compared to what could be done. So, WORK ON ALL THE PEOPLE AND ALL THE PLACES. A famous military success was the victory over epidemic in Cuba by the leadership of General Lenoard Wood. He had the whole of the island and it's people scrubbed. Here, as far as I know, spreading general physical and personal cleanliness has received little attention. Fashion here allows people aspirations to appear as dirty ragamuffin, rock star addicts, and other unkempt and unclean unchallenged. Places are covered with litter, trash, garbage, refuse, and waste with thousands of humans available to clean them. IF IT OR PEOPLE ARE DIRTY, DISCEASE FLOURISHES. AMERICA NEEDS REAL LEADERSHIP IN ADDRESSING PRACTICAL MATTERS AT EACH AND ANY LEVEL OF ENDEAVOR, NOW!!!

[pgher]

My TV stations are based in a metro area that crosses two states. Neither are swing states, but both have other contentious races. The only time I see Biden or Trump is in ads attacking a candidate for being too much like them. What I don't understand are when I see the same ad--not an ad for the same candidate, but the exact same ad--during every commercial break. Surely they have more useful things to say than to just run the same thing over and over again.

I wonder how the presidential election will affect these other races. Some are for Senate or the House of Representatives, but others are for state-level offices. As I said, we're not swing states, so the presidential piece is a foregone conclusion (almost). But the rest of the ballot? Who knows.