2020 Elections

[Parasaurolophus]

The police routinely overcharge the people they arrest. It's part of the strategy for coercing people into accepting plea bargains. Goose, gander.

[aside]

In this country, police arrest people, DAs charge them for anything above traffic tickets and other misdemeanors.

[Kron3007]

The cops are big boys. They ought to be able to handle someone mouthing off or being uncooperative without killing them.

Because it's so easy to tell if the irate person yelling at them has a weapon in their pocket, glove compartment, etc.

The death rate while in police custody in the US is way higher than other countries.  Pretty clear to me that US cops use excessive force and do not respond with appropriate force. I guess you could argue that the chances of people being armed in the US is higher, so cops need to be more aggressive, but that just makes the whole setup that much more sad.

[mahagonny]

The cops are big boys. They ought to be able to handle someone mouthing off or being uncooperative without killing them.

Because it's so easy to tell if the irate person yelling at them has a weapon in their pocket, glove compartment, etc.

The death rate while in police custody in the US is way higher than other countries.  Pretty clear to me that US cops use excessive force and do not respond with appropriate force. I guess you could argue that the chances of people being armed in the US is higher, so cops need to be more aggressive, but that just makes the whole setup that much more sad.

Wow, look at this. An observation about police behavior that doesn't pit the races against each other. I'm open to more of those.

[spork]

Fivethirtyeight.com is reporting that Theresa Greenfield has a slight edge over Jodi Ernst in the Iowa race for Senate. I think Ernst's numbers will decrease as coronavirus cases in Iowa increase .

[marshwiggle]

The cops are big boys. They ought to be able to handle someone mouthing off or being uncooperative without killing them.

Because it's so easy to tell if the irate person yelling at them has a weapon in their pocket, glove compartment, etc.

The death rate while in police custody in the US is way higher than other countries.  Pretty clear to me that US cops use excessive force and do not respond with appropriate force. I guess you could argue that the chances of people being armed in the US is higher, so cops need to be more aggressive, but that just makes the whole setup that much more sad.

I would never in a million years take a job that put my life at risk where a split-second hesitation could get me killed, OR if I don't hesitate, I could be facing murder charges.

It's a no-win situation for cops.

[jimbogumbo]

re fear of police: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/15/black-americans-police

OMG, how could I have been so incorrect in my statement? Wait a minute, the leading causes of premature death among young black men are homicide and, distantly second place, sucide (though it's a very sad thing to ponder). Someone has been encouraging people to think non-critically --- LeBron and Michelle, perhaps?
data:  https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0021934719895999

I presented information suggesting your assertion was incorrect. That is all. Your response was to mock black Americans fears, and attack Michelle Obama and LeBron James. You must have some serious issues.

[mahagonny]

re fear of police: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/15/black-americans-police

OMG, how could I have been so incorrect in my statement? Wait a minute, the leading causes of premature death among young black men are homicide and, distantly second place, sucide (though it's a very sad thing to ponder). Someone has been encouraging people to think non-critically --- LeBron and Michelle, perhaps?
data:  https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0021934719895999

I presented information suggesting your assertion was incorrect. That is all. Your response was to mock black Americans fears, and attack Michelle Obama and LeBron James. You must have some serious issues.

As for mocking Obama and James, they are voluntarily in the public arena, influential, and their ideas are open to scrutiny and reaction. The rest of what you posted is incorrect. I didn't mock anyone's fears. I am at a loss to understand why someone would be more afraid of police than they are of other things that are statistically much bigger threats. One possible explanation is mass hysteria. And two people you could look to who might be complicit are those two. Any ideas? I'll read.
Of course you have to be a little afraid of police. They have guns. You can be friendly to them, but it might be preferable if they don't really know who you are. When they know who you are, it's often for a reason you don't want. They're not your neighborhood grocer. It's the only way to run things. It may have unpleasant features but it's not like living under Vlad the Impaler. another reason to be afraid of police is you're doing things you shouldn't do. Applies to all of us.
i might have issues with liberal academics, academics who self identify as feminist, et al. We might butt heads a little.

I have no interest in this kind of victim blaming. Excessive force aimed at black and brown people has been a problem for the entirety of American history, and minorities have every right to be upset about it.

I'll remember this. Don't blame victims.

[jimbogumbo]

re fear of police: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/15/black-americans-police

OMG, how could I have been so incorrect in my statement? Wait a minute, the leading causes of premature death among young black men are homicide and, distantly second place, sucide (though it's a very sad thing to ponder). Someone has been encouraging people to think non-critically --- LeBron and Michelle, perhaps?
data:  https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0021934719895999

I presented information suggesting your assertion was incorrect. That is all. Your response was to mock black Americans fears, and attack Michelle Obama and LeBron James. You must have some serious issues.

As for mocking Obama and James, they are voluntarily in the public arena, influential, and their ideas are open to scrutiny and reaction. The rest of what you posted is incorrect. I didn't mock anyone's fears. I am at a loss to understand why someone would be more afraid of police than they are of other things that are statistically much bigger threats. One possible explanation is mass hysteria. And two people you could look to who might be complicit are those two. Any ideas? I'll read.
Of course you have to be a little afraid of police. They have guns. You can be friendly to them, but it might be preferable if they don't really know who you are. When they know who you are, it's often for a reason you don't want. They're not your neighborhood grocer. It's the only way to run things. It may have unpleasant features but it's not like living under Vlad the Impaler. another reason to be afraid of police is you're doing things you shouldn't do. Applies to all of us. But it doesn't explain the level of fear currently.
i might have issues with liberal academics, academics who self identify as feminist, et al. We might butt heads a little.

I have no interest in this kind of victim blaming. Excessive force aimed at black and brown people has been a problem for the entirety of American history, and minorities have every right to be upset about it.

I'll remember this. Don't blame victims.

Fair enough. For the record, the second quote was not mine. Let me approach it this way. I should be afraid of street criminals.  (Warning: run on sentence to follow.) I shouldn't have to be afraid that police will treat me as a suspicious person and injure or kill me on the basis of anything other than me resisting when they have probable cause to question or arrest me. I know the job is dangerous. To not acknowledge that as a country we've gone off the rails with policing is something I simply don't understand.

[mahagonny]

If we're off the rails with police violence, we've been off the rails for quite a few years already...https://killedbypolice.net

[Kron3007]

The cops are big boys. They ought to be able to handle someone mouthing off or being uncooperative without killing them.

Because it's so easy to tell if the irate person yelling at them has a weapon in their pocket, glove compartment, etc.

The death rate while in police custody in the US is way higher than other countries.  Pretty clear to me that US cops use excessive force and do not respond with appropriate force. I guess you could argue that the chances of people being armed in the US is higher, so cops need to be more aggressive, but that just makes the whole setup that much more sad.

I would never in a million years take a job that put my life at risk where a split-second hesitation could get me killed, OR if I don't hesitate, I could be facing murder charges.

It's a no-win situation for cops.

Then it's good you didn't become a cop.  For those who choose to become a cop they  are fully aware that they could be put in dangerous situations and chose to be there.  They should also realize that it is their job to protect the public and only use appropriate levels of force.  Again, other countries have much lower death rates in police custody, so something seems to be rotten in the police force.  I suspect it is the training and general mentality.  I also wonder if the line of work attracts some of the wrong people....

This is the same as joining the military.  You could be in dangerous situations, but if you were to shoot unarmed civilians because you were spooked there are consequences.

[jimbogumbo]

On a lighter election note, the SNL "debate" was hilarious. Highlight for me was when Maya Rudolph said " As promised I've left 60 seconds for climate change", and Jim Carrey said " Oil no, wind yes and fracking depends what state I'm in". I also liked that Alec Baldwin couldn't show any of his perfect, beautiful plans because they were all under audit with his taxes.

[mahagonny]

The cops are big boys. They ought to be able to handle someone mouthing off or being uncooperative without killing them.

Because it's so easy to tell if the irate person yelling at them has a weapon in their pocket, glove compartment, etc.

The death rate while in police custody in the US is way higher than other countries.  Pretty clear to me that US cops use excessive force and do not respond with appropriate force. I guess you could argue that the chances of people being armed in the US is higher, so cops need to be more aggressive, but that just makes the whole setup that much more sad.

I would never in a million years take a job that put my life at risk where a split-second hesitation could get me killed, OR if I don't hesitate, I could be facing murder charges.

It's a no-win situation for cops.

Then it's good you didn't become a cop.  For those who choose to become a cop they  are fully aware that they could be put in dangerous situations and chose to be there.  They should also realize that it is their job to protect the public and only use appropriate levels of force.  Again, other countries have much lower death rates in police custody, so something seems to be rotten in the police force.  I suspect it is the training and general mentality.  I also wonder if the line of work attracts some of the wrong people....

This is the same as joining the military.  You could be in dangerous situations, but if you were to shoot unarmed civilians because you were spooked there are consequences.

If i understand Marshwiggle's thought process, we take the type of people who want to be policemen as they are to some degree. To use the vernacular, it takes a big set of balls. We have no reason to expect they can all fit a certain personality type that we might prefer. There are a lot of them!

[marshwiggle]

I would never in a million years take a job that put my life at risk where a split-second hesitation could get me killed, OR if I don't hesitate, I could be facing murder charges.

It's a no-win situation for cops.

Then it's good you didn't become a cop.  For those who choose to become a cop they  are fully aware that they could be put in dangerous situations and chose to be there.  They should also realize that it is their job to protect the public and only use appropriate levels of force.  Again, other countries have much lower death rates in police custody, so something seems to be rotten in the police force.  I suspect it is the training and general mentality.  I also wonder if the line of work attracts some of the wrong people....

This is the same as joining the military.  You could be in dangerous situations, but if you were to shoot unarmed civilians because you were spooked there are consequences.

If i understand Marshwiggle's thought process, we take the type of people who want to be policemen as they are to some degree. To use the vernacular, it takes a big set of balls. We have no reason to expect they can all fit a certain personality type that we might prefer. There are a lot of them!

That's exactly right. In fact, anyone who would be remotely interested in being a cop would have to be more comfortable with confrontations, including physical ones, than most of us are. The same goes for the military.  We expect them to be that way when we need them.

[jimbogumbo]

I would never in a million years take a job that put my life at risk where a split-second hesitation could get me killed, OR if I don't hesitate, I could be facing murder charges.

It's a no-win situation for cops.

Then it's good you didn't become a cop.  For those who choose to become a cop they  are fully aware that they could be put in dangerous situations and chose to be there.  They should also realize that it is their job to protect the public and only use appropriate levels of force.  Again, other countries have much lower death rates in police custody, so something seems to be rotten in the police force.  I suspect it is the training and general mentality.  I also wonder if the line of work attracts some of the wrong people....

This is the same as joining the military.  You could be in dangerous situations, but if you were to shoot unarmed civilians because you were spooked there are consequences.

If i understand Marshwiggle's thought process, we take the type of people who want to be policemen as they are to some degree. To use the vernacular, it takes a big set of balls. We have no reason to expect they can all fit a certain personality type that we might prefer. There are a lot of them!

That's exactly right. In fact, anyone who would be remotely interested in being a cop would have to be more comfortable with confrontations, including physical ones, than most of us are. The same goes for the military.  We expect them to be that way when we need them.

I don't disagree. I think my issues are mostly related to Kron3007's last sentence. I think the military does a much fairer and better job in the situations described than we do with police departments, PARTICULARLY when it comes to non-white citizens. And, that is why I think black Americans fear the police.