2020 Elections

[Sun_Worshiper]

Minority voters voting republican more often is a good thing. It puts more diversity in their population. Diversity, do we remember that idea?

Both parties should be trying to get black votes and blacks should have real reasons to choose either one over the other.

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

[mahagonny]

Minority voters voting republican more often is a good thing. It puts more diversity in their population. Diversity, do we remember that idea?

Both parties should be trying to get black votes and blacks should have real reasons to choose either one over the other.

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

Another Nostradamus

Democrats were, once again, astonished to find (1) the expected blue wave never came and (2) although Trump lost, he almost didn't, and (3) the party continues to make progress with minority votes.

[marshwiggle]

Minority voters voting republican more often is a good thing. It puts more diversity in their population. Diversity, do we remember that idea?

Both parties should be trying to get black votes and blacks should have real reasons to choose either one over the other.

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

So, are the 12% of Black voters, 32% of Hispanic/Latino voters, 31% of Asian voters, and 40% of "Other" voters who voted for Trump self-loathing or just too stupid to miss the " the racisms that is central to [GOP] politics"?

Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/

[Parasaurolophus]

So, are the 12% of Black voters, 32% of Hispanic/Latino voters, 31% of Asian voters, and 40% of "Other" voters who voted for Trump self-loathing or just too stupid to miss the " the racisms that is central to [GOP] politics"?

Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/

I think it's a combination of factors. Some are ignorant. Some are gullible and misled. Some don't see themselves as appropriate targets of Trump and Republicans' racism, some don't see themselves as being targeted by Trump and Republicans and really hate some other group of people. Some have inherited their voting position from their parents and their parents' parents, and so on. And some--probably quite a lot of them--care a lot more about something else that's on offer. Like tax cuts, for example.

That said, if the prospect of tax cuts (or some other, comparable desire) outweighs your ability to care about the fate of other people who will be immiserated to secure those tax cuts (or that comparable desire), then I think there's something wrong with you. It might be that you're stupid, that you're bigoted, that you're greedy, that you're a bad person, etc. I don't know, but I have an open mind.

[dismalist]

Minority voters voting republican more often is a good thing. It puts more diversity in their population. Diversity, do we remember that idea?

Both parties should be trying to get black votes and blacks should have real reasons to choose either one over the other.

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

So, are the 12% of Black voters, 32% of Hispanic/Latino voters, 31% of Asian voters, and 40% of "Other" voters who voted for Trump self-loathing or just too stupid to miss the " the racisms that is central to [GOP] politics"?

Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/

They're not really black.

[mahagonny]

Jeez, we don't have to guess. Let's ask just one black person. That's at least a start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbozDBM67lY

You can always figure too, talk is cheap, but lower unemployment and a little more income go a long way.

Unfortunately, there are a few, of any and all races, who don't try really hard to be regularly employed, and fall on the safety net. Not necessarily a healthy situation. You know how people are.

[writingprof]

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

Anti-white racism is central to Democratic politics. 

[marshwiggle]

So, are the 12% of Black voters, 32% of Hispanic/Latino voters, 31% of Asian voters, and 40% of "Other" voters who voted for Trump self-loathing or just too stupid to miss the " the racisms that is central to [GOP] politics"?

Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/

I think it's a combination of factors. Some are ignorant. Some are gullible and misled. Some don't see themselves as appropriate targets of Trump and Republicans' racism, some don't see themselves as being targeted by Trump and Republicans and really hate some other group of people. Some have inherited their voting position from their parents and their parents' parents, and so on. And some--probably quite a lot of them--care a lot more about something else that's on offer. Like tax cuts, for example.

That said, if the prospect of tax cuts (or some other, comparable desire) outweighs your ability to care about the fate of other people who will be immiserated to secure those tax cuts (or that comparable desire), then I think there's something wrong with you. It might be that you're stupid, that you're bigoted, that you're greedy, that you're a bad person, etc. I don't know, but I have an open mind.

A one party system would be so much better, since only stupid or evil people vote for the other party.

[Parasaurolophus]

only stupid or evil people vote for the other party.

It's not that I think that's true globally. I do think it's true locally, however. Sometimes a party gets so bad that it has nothing to recommend it. I think that's true of the Republican party. I think it's been true for a while, but it's especially true in 2020.

For context: I don't think it's true of the Conservative Party of Canada. I think they're awful, but there's still room for reasonable disagreement. I think individual members of that party are awful and evil in various ways, or total morons, but it's just not the same.

[mahagonny]

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

Anti-white racism is central to Democratic politics.

Yeah, hating The USA too, which goes back to the Vietnam War era, but has taken on new aspects.

[mamselle]

Wanting growth is not hatred.

Wanting the death of something or someone is hatred.

Wanting their growth is wanting their life to go on, become stronger, better, more mature, happier.

Being stuck in any one moment belies the dance.

Staticity is not life, it's death.

So, wanting staticity is hatred.

Not wanting growth.

M.

[kaysixteen]

Random thoughts:

1)  many of those minority Trump voters are more or less in the same situation as those poor white Trumpers-- they have been sold a bill of goods by propaganda, including an ever-increasing amount of social media-driven *self*-propaganda, that tells them things that are just not true, repeats these lies over and over again, and in the hands of a master con-artist like Trump, effectively enabled by a cowed and obedient GOP congress, becomes very hard to resist.   It is of course also true that these folks are largely uneduated, victims of those sh*itty public schools, and as such lack the critical thinking skills and knowledge base needed to effectively evaluate the BS they have been sold.   Also, at least wrt those poor white Trumpers, never underestimate the poisonous effects of groupthink and tribal identity politics to aid Trump's vote totals.

2) Greed.    Tax cuts, even though those cuts are largely not going to most of the Trump base, white or otherwise, are stunningly effective means to get people to vote for those advocating such cuts.   That propaganda aids in this effort, of course, and lies and/ or obfuscates the reality that a) taxes, as Oliver Wendell Holmes notes, 'buy civilization' and b) most of these folks owe their prosperity to past taxation and redistribution efforts, however much they want to ignore this, and often get very pissy when you try to point it out, point out that 'socialism' is and has been rife in America, and is often very good.   Indeed, Americans are pretty much alone amongst westernized democracies, in terms of our insane taxophobia.   We can of course discuss why this is.

[mahagonny]

I appreciate K16's random thoughts and add mine:
If eight per cent of blacks voted for Trump versus six or fewer four years ago, and people vote out of economic self interest ('greed'?), and also black unemployment is down and earnings are up under Trump, then:

(1) We should expect the blacks who switched to Trump are likely the ones feeling more prosperous than they did a few years ago,
(2)  They may have owed their prosperity to democratic policies four years ago, but their future could easily looks brighter under Trump, so they have not changed their criteria in picking a candidate,
(3) If they had again voted for Biden, it would have been out of a sense of duty to others or altruism, which is a luxury of the relatively much more wealthy. So we shouldn't necessarily expect it of them.

on edit: which if the following sounds negative hopeless and futile, and which sounds uplifting and hopeful?

1. Black men are now voting for Trump in higher numbers because they are attracted to his male chauvinism, bullying, objectifying women. They think callous, exploitative domination of women is what has traditionally made the white man the icon of success and strength that he is, and they aspire to that position. - (compassionate left-leaners)
2. Men have been devalued, but remain extremely important to the success of the family, by being around and being the primary breadwinners.  - (Candace Owens the black man in the video I linked upthread)

[marshwiggle]

   Also, at least wrt those poor white Trumpers, never underestimate the poisonous effects of groupthink and tribal identity politics to aid Trump's vote totals.

How can those possibly be big things among minority voters? By definition, they aren't the majority of Trump supporters, and they aren't voting with the majority of their own"tribe"???? They are acting "anti-tribally", if anything.
Are you saying white and non-white Trump voters do so for entirely different reasons?

  Tax cuts, even though those cuts are largely not going to most of the Trump base, white or otherwise, are stunningly effective means to get people to vote for those advocating such cuts.   That propaganda aids in this effort, of course, and lies and/ or obfuscates the reality that a) taxes, as Oliver Wendell Holmes notes, 'buy civilization' and b) most of these folks owe their prosperity to past taxation and redistribution efforts, however much they want to ignore this, and often get very pissy when you try to point it out, point out that 'socialism' is and has been rife in America, and is often very good.   Indeed, Americans are pretty much alone amongst westernized democracies, in terms of our insane taxophobia.   We can of course discuss why this is.

Find one person outside the US that would ever use the term "socialist" to describe the US. Having government programs does not make a country socialist; by that definition every country ever has been "socialist".

The American "taxophobia" is part of the general paranoia about government, which is a particular
American obsession.

[mamselle]

It would be a healthier democracy if both parties attracted minority voters. But it is up to GOP to earn minority votes and part of doing that will require them to disavow and eliminate the racisms that is central to their politics.

Anti-white racism is central to Democratic politics.

That belief/narrative is in line with this:
   https://thehill.com/homenews/news/527641-obama-republican-party-members-believe-white-males-are-victims

I agree that white males have in some ways unwittingly pulled the bookshelves over on themselves, and I am not unsympathetic to claims of pain and disenfranchisement in some areas of life--like providing for their families and shouldering national conflicts at the level of personal, military mortality.

In part, they were/are victimized by the very set of linked beliefs some want to claim could "Make America Great (i.e.white/male--this KKK dogwhistle phrase, = "white male again," as a black female friend recently reminded me) Again."

Folks like my dad (who, on the other hand, helped found the Interracial Acarima frat chapter at OSU) were in some ways tortured by the perceived (inherent, unqueried racist/sexist) need to deny themselves the benefits of a wider, more diversely supportive base population by which to "get things done." The very folks being excluded could have shared and made less scary the kinds of change that needed to happen for the betterment of the whole society.

Guys like my dad were raised to believe themselves resposible for and capable of solving the world's problems as well as their family's needs, and many--whether mentally, spiritually, physically, or in some combination--died trying, or believing  that they just hadn't tried hard enough.

That well-meaning sense of--maybe guilt, maybe exhaustion--made them sitting ducks for phrases like Nixon's "Moral Majority," (another dogwhistle phrase run amok, which I thought at the time gave birth to the later so-called 'Tea Party' and "Faith Forward" movements).

I saw shifts in my own family's backpedalling from joining a very forward-looking church in the 50s, to becoming quite upset with its direction in the 70s and ghosting out of most of its more socially-conscious activities (I,  on the other hsnd, found support there for my art, dance and music activities, and remained).

The juicy hopefulness of my parents' generation in the 50s ran through the tighter, more sclerosed veins of cynicism and trickle-down gullibility by the 80s. While a kid put a daisy in a gun 100 miles north of us, I began to ponder things; my dad railed against them. The split between us might have started then...I nowrealize he'd run dry on answers and was just sputtering.

So to an extent, by my observation, white males trapped themselves--and accepted the trapping they'd been raised to believe in--within a narrow, box-like structure.

Again, I am not completely unsympathetic. I often say kiddingly to fellows as I hold the door for them, entering a building together, "See? Liberation means I can do kind things for YOU, too..." Because those rigidly defined roles were often like a very clunky chain mail vest for fellows expected to be on "Knight in Shining Armor " duty 24/7.

It hurt them as much as it hurt us to be locked so tightly into our roles.

But some don't see this. Insisting so much on their inherent power to command (and right to be heard above all other voices), when others' particular insights into the needs of people of color (or those otherwise unlike them), or the strengths and helps those others could bring to what can become a crushing burden of expectations and responsibilities, they have boxed themselves into an echo chamber, yelling so loudly about their plight that they can't hear the voices, just outside, of those who could help them out of it.

And I'm sorry to say, but that won't work. That echo chamber might well become their coffin if they don't learn some humility, and shut up, and listen.

Pax in terra omnibus.

M.