2020 Elections

[Parasaurolophus]

and they are willing to un-identify with those that they share more relatively common common roots (when compared with those that have European ancestry)

For what it's worth, this isn't something you can assume. Sharing a skin colour or other phenotypical features is a bad proxy for genetic similarity/heritage. That's because our 'racial' classifications are not based on genetics. Sharing a language is actually a better predictor of shared genetic heritage (not that it's a great one, for obvious reasons, but it is better, which tells you something).

[ciao_yall]

Most immigrants do not like to be categorized under the broad brush of "people of color" as this is not how they see themselves. Many of the votes for Trump were in fact votes against the Democrats who according to immigrants lump them into homogenous groups such as "Latino" and "Asian-American" and thus lack the ability to think for themselves or have any kind of agency.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/opinion/sunday/immigrants-vote-election-politics.html?searchResultPosition=2

You are touching on something that should be discussed more often, but no one wants to go far enough. It's very true that "Most immigrants do not like to be categorized under the broad brush of "people of color" as this is not how they see themselves."

Going deeper into uncomfortable territory, think of very recent Sudanese immigrants or Haitian immigrants who are quick to point out that they are not the same as the people who are referenced as "black" or even "African-American" and do not want to think that they share anything in common with those that have the same skin color, but whose ancestors were forcibly brought over to North America centuries earlier.  Think of new Asian immigrants who get frustrated when they are confused with Latinos. Think of more pale-skinned Latin Americans, who look down on the darker-skinned people from their same region. They all want a leg-up, and they are willing to un-identify with those that they share more relatively common common roots (when compared with those that have European ancestry), and even throw them under the bus, and further, even exercise their option to vote for an anti-immigrant politician, so they can assure themselves that they are different from those that they look down upon.

Alternatively, they don't want to be stereotyped as having history, experiences or perspectives that they simply don't have.

Maybe people want to be recognized as individuals rather than a gender or ethnic group?

In my case, I'm a woman. I'm even married to a man. But I wanted to build a career and had zero interest in pushing for on-site day care, as I don't have children. And to hell with the "mommy-track" traps/roles I had to watch out for.

[Langue_doc]

Most immigrants do not like to be categorized under the broad brush of "people of color" as this is not how they see themselves. Many of the votes for Trump were in fact votes against the Democrats who according to immigrants lump them into homogenous groups such as "Latino" and "Asian-American" and thus lack the ability to think for themselves or have any kind of agency.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/opinion/sunday/immigrants-vote-election-politics.html?searchResultPosition=2

You are touching on something that should be discussed more often, but no one wants to go far enough. It's very true that "Most immigrants do not like to be categorized under the broad brush of "people of color" as this is not how they see themselves."

Going deeper into uncomfortable territory, think of very recent Sudanese immigrants or Haitian immigrants who are quick to point out that they are not the same as the people who are referenced as "black" or even "African-American" and do not want to think that they share anything in common with those that have the same skin color, but whose ancestors were forcibly brought over to North America centuries earlier.  Think of new Asian immigrants who get frustrated when they are confused with Latinos. Think of more pale-skinned Latin Americans, who look down on the darker-skinned people from their same region. They all want a leg-up, and they are willing to un-identify with those that they share more relatively common common roots (when compared with those that have European ancestry), and even throw them under the bus, and further, even exercise their option to vote for an anti-immigrant politician, so they can assure themselves that they are different from those that they look down upon.

Alternatively, they don't want to be stereotyped as having history, experiences or perspectives that they simply don't have.

Maybe people want to be recognized as individuals rather than a gender or ethnic group?

In my case, I'm a woman. I'm even married to a man. But I wanted to build a career and had zero interest in pushing for on-site day care, as I don't have children. And to hell with the "mommy-track" traps/roles I had to watch out for.

Immigrants do want to be recognized as individuals who can think for themselves rather than be profiled as non-white which seems to be the only thing that the Democrats notice about them.

NYC has a large number of immigrants from the Caribbean who do not identify with other groups based on their skin color or language but instead want to be recognized as hard-working individuals. You'll find French-speaking Haitians, English-speaking people from several of the islands, and also Spanish speakers from some of the islands in NYC's schools and community colleges. Most immigrants want to learn English and are understandably upset when they are automatically classified as non-white, instead of being seen as individuals who are often professionals. Spanish-speakers from the Dominican Republic do not always identify with Spanish speakers from other regions or countries. Likewise, Asians range from speakers of several languages in the Indian subcontinent to those from the far east. I remember a Korean student complaining about being mistaken for someone from Japan; he was quite visibly upset by the profiling because this happened during a guided tour at the MET when the guide kept looking at him when discussing a Japanese exhibit.

Immigrants merely want to be recognized as individuals who have agency instead of being seen as ethnic groups who might not be educated or understand English. If the Democrats want the immigrants' votes, they should stop grouping them as "Latino", "Asian-American" and "African American".

Incidentally, Obama doesn't belong to the "African American" category. His mother was Caucasian, and his father an international student from Kenya who went back to his home country when Obama was still a toddler.

[Hegemony]

For all immigrants want to be recognized as individuals, they are demonized pretty much across the board by those who dislike immigrants. Distinctions are not widely made, except for white people immigrating from Europe. And for black immigrants, they may feel they're different from African-Americans, but the point is that the bigots don't care. They all, immigrants and longtime Americans, have an equal interest in not being targeted for their skin color.

[mahagonny]

Incidentally, Obama doesn't belong to the "African American" category. His mother was Caucasian, and his father an international student from Kenya who went back to his home country when Obama was still a toddler.

Neither would Kamala Harris who is more Indian-British Jamaican. Yet voters who were too inattentive to notice that were welcome to see her as African American if that was helpful to Biden-Harris politically. I don't remember her making a point of having people know her origins. All is of this is fair play of course, just like Donald Trump courting the vote of people who don't turn red with anger every time they walk past a statue of Woodrow Wilson.

[Stockmann]

Most immigrants do not like to be categorized under the broad brush of "people of color" as this is not how they see themselves. Many of the votes for Trump were in fact votes against the Democrats who according to immigrants lump them into homogenous groups such as "Latino" and "Asian-American" and thus lack the ability to think for themselves or have any kind of agency.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/opinion/sunday/immigrants-vote-election-politics.html?searchResultPosition=2

Actually, one thing I've noticed is that American discussions on race, very much including these boards (this thread being a rather lonely exception), tend to focus on blacks and whites and ignore anyone else - so Latinos, etc aren't even lumped into one category but are often ignored altogether.

[Parasaurolophus]

Neera Tanden, currently expected to be Biden's pick for the Office of Budget Management, has been trying to cut social security, medicare, and medicaid since 2010.

[Cheerful]

Neera Tanden, currently expected to be Biden's pick for the Office of Budget Management, has been trying to cut social security, medicare, and medicaid since 2010.

So many of the articles about his appointees emphasize "the first woman...," "the first South Asian American..." "the first..."  These emphases are insulting to appointees, suggesting they're appointed due to demographics.

I don't care about demographic "firsts," I care about qualifications, reputations, plans.

[Langue_doc]

Neera Tanden, currently expected to be Biden's pick for the Office of Budget Management, has been trying to cut social security, medicare, and medicaid since 2010.

So many of the articles about his appointees emphasize "the first woman...," "the first South Asian American..." "the first..."  These emphases are insulting to appointees, suggesting they're appointed due to demographics.

I don't care about demographic "firsts," I care about qualifications, reputations, plans.

My sentiments exactly. These references to ethnicity are more about the professed wokeness of the journalists and politicians rather than the qualifications of the nominees. According to the New York Times, "Mr. Biden's picks include Janet L. Yellen, the former Federal Reserve chair, who if confirmed would be the first woman to serve as Treasury secretary; Cecilia Rouse of Princeton University, the first Black nominee to head the White House Council of Economic Advisers; and Neera Tanden of the Center for American Progress think tank, who would be the first woman of color to run the Office of Management and Budget. All three have focused on efforts to boost worker earnings and reduce racial and gender discrimination in the economy." (emphasis mine)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/30/business/biden-economics-yellen-labor.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Are men ever referred to as "men of color" or is this term reserved for women?

[Parasaurolophus]

I think it's part and parcel of the infantilization of the left. This is them throwing a bone to the left.

Kind of like how the Conservative party here thinks that the way to get young people on board is to use social media rather than acknowledge the legitimacy of their concerns and try to address them.

[kaysixteen]

I do not think Tanden is qualified for this high post either, but what is your evidence that she supports cuts to these programs?

[jimbogumbo]

Every one of them is eminently qualified. You may have issues with them (Parasophalus has stated his), but the rest of you seem stunned (bitter?) that the fact that they are in fact "firsts" is newsworthy.

Here is a different fact. Donald Trump was completely unqualified to be President, and he picked many equally unqualified people for his Cabinet. I think that is a far greater tragedy.

[Parasaurolophus]

Every one of them is eminently qualified.

I agree 100%. I think they're awful picks, but I certainly don't think they're unqualified or insufficiently qualified. (Not yet, anyway. If Buttigieg gets something, I'll change my tune.)

I do not think Tanden is qualified for this high post either, but what is your evidence that she supports cuts to these programs?

She's popped up periodically to voice support for the idea. In 2010, her think tank was boosting the idea of cutting SS in 2012. She did the rounds promoting the idea, and similar proposals, over the next few years. There's an interview with her here, too, where she names SS, medicare, and medicaid as targets for cuts in order to reform "entitlements". In 2016, she did some tweeting in support of chaining CPI to keep SS 'solvent'.

[marshwiggle]

I think it's part and parcel of the infantilization of the left. This is them throwing a bone to the left.

Kind of like how the Conservative party here thinks that the way to get young people on board is to use social media rather than acknowledge the legitimacy of their concerns and try to address them.

Like the other "groups" mentioned above, young people aren't a monolith. "Their concerns" will not all be the same.

[mahagonny]

My late father, a lifelong republican, was in favor of cutting social security benefits to people like himself, because had a corporate pension sufficient to support himself and Mom. But he intended the effect of that to be to insure that funds would be available for people who were dependent on social security to get by. Which, you know...is a gamble. When you give money to government there's no telling where it will end up.