2020 Elections

[ciao_yall]

"Defund the police" is not about completely getting rid of public safety, and never has been.

It's about using police appropriately, and funding things like schools, social services, mental health, and so on, before things devolve to where police and jails are sucking up all the resources.

"USE POLICE APPROPRIATELY, AND FUND SCHOOLS, SOCIAL SERVICES, AND MENTAL HEALTH BEFORE THINGS DEVOLVE TO WHERE POLICE AND JAILS SUCK UP ALL THE RESOURCES!"

Kind of long for a placard, but who would disagree with that? That's my point. A more nuanced, less "click-baity" statment would be much less divisive.

Agreed. But when Faux News, etc extends the statement, it becomes "Defund the police and let the gangs, rapists and murderers run rampant because someone is mad that some thug* with a criminal history** got shot by the police for robbing*** a liquor store."

* young black man
** truancy because his underfunded school was a miserable place to be
*** scaring the owner who thought he might have a gun even though he was just shoplifting a Gatorade because he didn't have any money.

[Langue_doc]

The Democratic left is resisting some of Biden's nominees. It appears that the candidate to head the Coronovirus team isn't "pure" enough politically.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/us/politics/biden-staff-business-zients.html

[Sun_Worshiper]

Trump allies take out a full page ad in the Washington Times calling for martial law: https://www.newsweek.com/michael-flynn-call-martial-law-comes-amid-violent-threats-trump-election-defeat-1551769

This is after Trump's lawyer called for the execution of Chris Krebs for not supporting yet another of the President's idiotic conspiracy theories.

These people are truly insane and blatantly anti-democratic.

[mahagonny]

"Defund the police" is not about completely getting rid of public safety, and never has been.

It's about using police appropriately, and funding things like schools, social services, mental health, and so on, before things devolve to where police and jails are sucking up all the resources.

"USE POLICE APPROPRIATELY, AND FUND SCHOOLS, SOCIAL SERVICES, AND MENTAL HEALTH BEFORE THINGS DEVOLVE TO WHERE POLICE AND JAILS SUCK UP ALL THE RESOURCES!"

Kind of long for a placard, but who would disagree with that? That's my point. A more nuanced, less "click-baity" statment would be much less divisive.

Agreed. But when Faux News, etc extends the statement, it becomes "Defund the police and let the gangs, rapists and murderers run rampant because someone is mad that some thug* with a criminal history** got shot by the police for robbing*** a liquor store."

* young black man
** truancy because his underfunded school was a miserable place to be
*** scaring the owner who thought he might have a gun even though he was just shoplifting a Gatorade because he didn't have any money.

Barack Obama tries to talk a little common sense and diplomacy and gets shot down by 'the squad.' Maybe this squaring off will bring something good. Like the end of the careers of those four. What an embarassment they are.
Maybe the democrats could try something like "all the people in favor of common sense on this side of the room. All the people in favor of the nonsense that comes from the squad, on this side of the room. Now, let's have two different parties."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progressives-fire-back-at-obama-after-he-criticizes-defund-the-police-movement

[marshwiggle]

Rep. Jim Clyburn, the House majority whip and the highest-ranking Black lawmaker in Congress, said the slogan had the potential to lose public support for Black Lives Matter and other movements on the left.

"I came out very publicly and very forcibly against sloganeering," Clyburn, D-S.C., said during an interview on CNN's "State of the Union." He compared it to the "burn, baby, burn" slogan that became popular during the 1965 Watts riots in Los Angeles, and which Clyburn said cost support for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

"We can't pick up these things just because it makes a good headline, it sometimes destroys headway," he said.  "We need to work on what makes headway rather than what makes headlines."

This should be graven on tablets of stone and tatooed on the foreheads  of every politician,  journalist, and "activist" academic.

[Parasaurolophus]

God forbid activists should say things! Oh nose! Teh h0rr0rz! Clearly, they're the enemy. It's activists who have prevented us from doing the things we want to do. It's activists who nearly made us lose the presidential campaign, and who made us bleed support downballot. It's because of activists that we have police brutality, that we can't have healthcare, that we torture 'folks', that the climate is screwed. Those fuckers. /rolleyes


Let's also remember that the reason activists have adopted the slogan is because of decades of total inaction on the part of local, state, and federal governments. Including Obama's own dismal failures to act.

"You lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done," Obama said. "The key is deciding, do you want to actually get something done, or do you want to feel good among the people you already agree with?"

Seems a bit rich, coming from someone who chose the latter option over and over again.

Honestly, the further his presidency is in my rearview mirror, the less I like it, and the less I like him. What a colossal asshole.

[financeguy]

This is a totally surface level comment but I always thought Bush Jr and Obama both had the entitled "smirk" that made it very difficult for me to consider the content of anything either said.

[marshwiggle]

God forbid activists should say things! Oh nose! Teh h0rr0rz! Clearly, they're the enemy. It's activists who have prevented us from doing the things we want to do. It's activists who nearly made us lose the presidential campaign, and who made us bleed support downballot. It's because of activists that we have police brutality, that we can't have healthcare, that we torture 'folks', that the climate is screwed. Those fuckers. /rolleyes

Academics, even if they are activists, should understand the need for subtlety and nuance to accurately explain things and to suggest effective evidence-based improvements.

They do a disservice to their profession by oversimplifying issues and whipping up emotions that make rational work towards sustained progress less likely.

[mahagonny]

God forbid activists should say things! Oh nose! Teh h0rr0rz! Clearly, they're the enemy. It's activists who have prevented us from doing the things we want to do. It's activists who nearly made us lose the presidential campaign, and who made us bleed support downballot. It's because of activists that we have police brutality, that we can't have healthcare, that we torture 'folks', that the climate is screwed. Those fuckers. /rolleyes

Academics, even if they are activists, should understand the need for subtlety and nuance to accurately explain things and to suggest effective evidence-based improvements.

They do a disservice to their profession by oversimplifying issues and whipping up emotions that make rational work towards sustained progress less likely.

It's the activists who think 'silence is violence and looting is not' as Bill Maher put it. It's the activists who think it's OK to torment people paying for an experience at a restaurant by chanting at them.

'Silence is violence' - another overly dramatic pronouncement lending itself to bullying. Especially when, if you do speak up on matters of race, there is only one acceptable set of perceptions one may have.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Hard to imagine being upset about a slogan or a smirk at this moment, when the President and his sycophants are actively trying to overturn a democratic election. Fortunately they will almost certainly fail, but in the process they are undermining American democracy, spreading dangerous (and idiotic) conspiracy theories, and emboldening violent elements. And Republicans in the national spotlight are mostly playing along or even encouraging this lunacy.

[jimbogumbo]

Honestly, the further his presidency is in my rearview mirror, the less I like it, and the less I like him. What a colossal asshole.

Serious question for context. Would you list one President/presidency you really did like?

[mahagonny]

I am upset about both. I find it hard to imagine starting a movement to reinforce a group of people's rights to dignity, safety, fair treatment and success and then choosing a mascot who was into armed home invasions and gang burglary. And then putting his face on your new T-shirt.

[Sun_Worshiper]

I am upset about both. I find it hard to imagine starting a movement to reinforce a group of people's rights to dignity, safety, fair treatment and success and then choosing a mascot who was into armed home invasions and gang burglary. And then putting his face on your new T-shirt.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

[marshwiggle]

I am upset about both. I find it hard to imagine starting a movement to reinforce a group of people's rights to dignity, safety, fair treatment and success and then choosing a mascot who was into armed home invasions and gang burglary. And then putting his face on your new T-shirt.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm pretty sure it's a George Floyd reference.

[Sun_Worshiper]

I am upset about both. I find it hard to imagine starting a movement to reinforce a group of people's rights to dignity, safety, fair treatment and success and then choosing a mascot who was into armed home invasions and gang burglary. And then putting his face on your new T-shirt.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm pretty sure it's a George Floyd reference.

Ah of course. The personal background of a guy who was killed by apparent police brutality is comparable to an American president crapping all over American democracy. Give me a break.