2020 Elections

[mahagonny]

You're monstrous.

Under financeguy's proposed, feasible system, George Floyd would still be living.

[marshwiggle]

For those saying most drug users do not make good choices and such, again, you may be surprised to know how many functional drug users there are that lead perfectly normal lives.  One thing that has been interesting with cannabis legalization in Canada is how this has made people more open about it.  I use cannabis (rarely smoke it), and know many other professors, CEOs of companies, teachers, nurses, and other professionals who partake.  The whole stereotype of the lazy stoner is mostly a product of decades of propaganda.  This isn't to say they don't exist, but it is a good lessen in correlation not equalling causation.

You may not agree with my life choices, but I see no reason that should matter unless they are impacting you (or others).  We store it safely away from our children, don't drive under the influence, pay our taxes, give to charity, and are generally good members of society, just a little stoned sometimes.  If my younger self had been sent to jail for this, I could be leading a very different life, not for the better.

This is like gun ownership. There are many gun owners who are very responsible; they keep them properly locked up, away from children, unloaded, etc.  However, when a child dies because of irresponsible actions, it gets called a "tragic accident", rather than a completely preventable death that was the result of criminal negligence.

To get back to drugs; part of the reason for making posession illegal is that it makes it easy to arrest dealers without having to catch them actually selling; if they have the drugs, they're guilty. If posession is legal, then my example of the person claiming the garage full is their personal stash is the kind of thing that becomes untouchable.

Is drug dealing something that should be illegal? If so, how can it be stopped if posession is perfectly OK?

[mahagonny]

For those saying most drug users do not make good choices and such, again, you may be surprised to know how many functional drug users there are that lead perfectly normal lives.  One thing that has been interesting with cannabis legalization in Canada is how this has made people more open about it.  I use cannabis (rarely smoke it), and know many other professors, CEOs of companies, teachers, nurses, and other professionals who partake.  The whole stereotype of the lazy stoner is mostly a product of decades of propaganda.  This isn't to say they don't exist, but it is a good lessen in correlation not equalling causation.

You may not agree with my life choices, but I see no reason that should matter unless they are impacting you (or others).  We store it safely away from our children, don't drive under the influence, pay our taxes, give to charity, and are generally good members of society, just a little stoned sometimes.  If my younger self had been sent to jail for this, I could be leading a very different life, not for the better.

This is like gun ownership. There are many gun owners who are very responsible; they keep them properly locked up, away from children, unloaded, etc.  However, when a child dies because of irresponsible actions, it gets called a "tragic accident", rather than a completely preventable death that was the result of criminal negligence.

To get back to drugs; part of the reason for making posession illegal is that it makes it easy to arrest dealers without having to catch them actually selling; if they have the drugs, they're guilty. If posession is legal, then my example of the person claiming the garage full is their personal stash is the kind of thing that becomes untouchable.

Is drug dealing something that should be illegal? If so, how can it be stopped if posession is perfectly OK?

Sure, sale of recreational drugs, like gambling, is immoral and unhealthy, except when the government's getting a cut of the profit.

'I am shocked to find that gambling is going on here!'
'Here you are, your winnings, sir.'
"Ah...thank you!'

[mahagonny]

For those saying most drug users do not make good choices and such, again, you may be surprised to know how many functional drug users there are that lead perfectly normal lives.

And now you prompt me to think of this:
Or we can be reminded how many abnormal lives have produced advances in knowledge, culture and art. Think of drunk Richard Burton on the stage and screen, drunk Mussorgsky composing, drunk Truman Capote writing books and song lyrics, Hugh Hefner putting in 100 hour weeks building the Playboy empire and Charlie Parker practicing the saxophone 15 hours per day, both fueled by amphetamines. Do they become a burden on the system? Yes, sometimes. But they're also giving us something.

[clean]

I dont read this thread much anymore as the elections are, for th emost part, over, and the topic long since detoured to downtown Twilight Zone, but dont mind me...

I am here to comment on drug use. 

I wonder how many people are dead or addicted because they followed their doctor's advice.  As a back pain sufferer, I had my experiences with Hydrocodone.  Im not exactly a fan. It certainly helps with the pain, but also aggravates my sleep apnea so Im still awake, but drugged.  Not a great experience for me.  At the peak dosage (after back spasms sent me to the ER), I was on 20mg (whatever the units are).  It helped the pain but I was not able to function.  At the lowest dosage of 1/2 of a 5mg pill, I was able to function with the edge off of the pain, but I wasnt stupid from the drugs.

Anyway, not to get too far afield other than to say I was on it long enough to understand what each dosage strength would do for as well as to me.  I understand that others became addicted to it and moved to codeine (a poor substitute) and heroine as a cheaper alternative.

The bottom line is that I avoided the drug addiction phase, and others were not so fortunate, but the beginning of their problem was not a moral failing, but a prescription from their physician!

Would Mr Floyd be alive?  to quote the owl, "The world may never know".  The problems of the police may very well have their roots in drug use, though power trips have existed for a long, long time before there was a drug epidemic. 


So returning more directly to the elections... IS Trump's delusion of having the election stolen from him going to cost the GOP the 2 Ga Senate seats and therefore a majority? 
If it does, what would a life in the US be like with the government in the complete hands of the democrats (save the Supreme Court)?

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

How soon will the Election of 2024 begin?  Do we assume that Biden will NOT run or CAN we make that assumption?  (Will he be a caretaker president, or worse, will HE be marginalized by HIS party?)

[Kron3007]

For those saying most drug users do not make good choices and such, again, you may be surprised to know how many functional drug users there are that lead perfectly normal lives.  One thing that has been interesting with cannabis legalization in Canada is how this has made people more open about it.  I use cannabis (rarely smoke it), and know many other professors, CEOs of companies, teachers, nurses, and other professionals who partake.  The whole stereotype of the lazy stoner is mostly a product of decades of propaganda.  This isn't to say they don't exist, but it is a good lessen in correlation not equalling causation.

You may not agree with my life choices, but I see no reason that should matter unless they are impacting you (or others).  We store it safely away from our children, don't drive under the influence, pay our taxes, give to charity, and are generally good members of society, just a little stoned sometimes.  If my younger self had been sent to jail for this, I could be leading a very different life, not for the better.

This is like gun ownership. There are many gun owners who are very responsible; they keep them properly locked up, away from children, unloaded, etc.  However, when a child dies because of irresponsible actions, it gets called a "tragic accident", rather than a completely preventable death that was the result of criminal negligence.

To get back to drugs; part of the reason for making posession illegal is that it makes it easy to arrest dealers without having to catch them actually selling; if they have the drugs, they're guilty. If posession is legal, then my example of the person claiming the garage full is their personal stash is the kind of thing that becomes untouchable.

Is drug dealing something that should be illegal? If so, how can it be stopped if posession is perfectly OK?

Well, what they call gun deaths depends on the source you are reading.  I suspect it is covered differently in Canada, and these events are far less common.  Not because guns are banned, but they are heavily regulated.

Regarding dealers, most of this would naturally disappear with legalization and what doesn't would still be a crime.  With legalization, there would be a limit on how much you can have on you, which is less than a dealer would have.  If you have more than the limit, especially in small pre-packaged amounts, it is pretty clear.    So, if you have a garage full, you have exceeded the personal amount and could be charged.  Admittedly, this is not the case with Cannabis in Canada as we are allowed to grow out own and have as much as we want, but there is a limit on how much we can carry.

[marshwiggle]

To get back to drugs; part of the reason for making posession illegal is that it makes it easy to arrest dealers without having to catch them actually selling; if they have the drugs, they're guilty. If posession is legal, then my example of the person claiming the garage full is their personal stash is the kind of thing that becomes untouchable.

Is drug dealing something that should be illegal? If so, how can it be stopped if posession is perfectly OK?

Regarding dealers, most of this would naturally disappear with legalization and what doesn't would still be a crime.  With legalization, there would be a limit on how much you can have on you, which is less than a dealer would have.  If you have more than the limit, especially in small pre-packaged amounts, it is pretty clear.    So, if you have a garage full, you have exceeded the personal amount and could be charged.  Admittedly, this is not the case with Cannabis in Canada as we are allowed to grow out own and have as much as we want, but there is a limit on how much we can carry.

Easy-peasy. The drugs are delivered to my garage by the manufacturer. Clients have to come to my garage to pick up their purchases. I never "carry" any.

[marshwiggle]

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

There are lots of moderates, but they tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut because they're tired of being villified by both sides, including the media who pander to one side or the other. A nuanced position which doesn't have an immediate, simple, emotionally satisfying "solution" to any specific problem is unacceptable.

[mahagonny]

So returning more directly to the elections... IS Trump's delusion of having the election stolen from him going to cost the GOP the 2 Ga Senate seats and therefore a majority? 
If it does, what would a life in the US be like with the government in the complete hands of the democrats (save the Supreme Court)?

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

How soon will the Election of 2024 begin?  Do we assume that Biden will NOT run or CAN we make that assumption?  (Will he be a caretaker president, or worse, will HE be marginalized by HIS party?)

With democrats in control of everything and if the media is any indication, things will be marginally less crazy than they've been under Trump. Consider this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/07/biden-diversity-top-political-jobs-illusion-change-america

"Joe Biden's drive for diversity in top political jobs is only an illusion of change."
Nesrine Malik

^   I surely hope so. Considering the kind of change that could be coming with all of the left in charge and Biden just tagging along. Maybe now we'll have a chance to see if Biden actually believes anything.

I'm happy to see many more women in top government positions (hopefully not Elizabeth Warren, who wants a serious discussion of reparations for slavery.) I'd rather see 50 women I've never heard of than one Beto O'Rourke in the cabinet and its supporting staff.

[apl68]

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

There are lots of moderates, but they tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut because they're tired of being villified by both sides, including the media who pander to one side or the other. A nuanced position which doesn't have an immediate, simple, emotionally satisfying "solution" to any specific problem is unacceptable.

There is an awful lot of that unattractive "if you're not for us you're against us" stuff out there.

And then there are those who don't look to politics for our salvation.  In our neighborhood there is a conspicuously red-and-blue yard sign that says "Jesus 2020."  I'm guessing that the person who placed it is trying to plead for peace between the angry political factions.  It could also perhaps be seen as a kind of polite "a plague on both your houses" statement.  At any rate it's a reminder that there are other things in life.

[Sun_Worshiper]

So returning more directly to the elections... IS Trump's delusion of having the election stolen from him going to cost the GOP the 2 Ga Senate seats and therefore a majority? 
If it does, what would a life in the US be like with the government in the complete hands of the democrats (save the Supreme Court)?

Maybe, but it is an uphill clime for the Democrats to win both of those seats

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

Biden is a moderate and he won the primary and a national election with 80m votes, so I'd say there are plenty of moderates. Most of the people around him are moderates, and the progressive wing of the Democratic party has been marginalized and was already not very large, so there is that too. In general my opinion is that the Democrats are a moderate party but people focus on a small and loud segment.

There are moderate Republicans too, but few and far between. My guess is that moderation will become more common with the party in the minority and Trump gone.

How soon will the Election of 2024 begin?  Do we assume that Biden will NOT run or CAN we make that assumption?  (Will he be a caretaker president, or worse, will HE be marginalized by HIS party?)

I would assume that Biden will run again if he is healthy. He may use the rhetoric of being a one-term president, but incumbents have a significant advantage and so he'll be the favorite in 2024 if he decides to run. If he doesn't run, then there will be a primary and it is too early to do any meaningful prediction about what that would look like.

[marshwiggle]

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

There are lots of moderates, but they tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut because they're tired of being villified by both sides, including the media who pander to one side or the other. A nuanced position which doesn't have an immediate, simple, emotionally satisfying "solution" to any specific problem is unacceptable.

There is an awful lot of that unattractive "if you're not for us you're against us" stuff out there.

And then there are those who don't look to politics for our salvation.  In our neighborhood there is a conspicuously red-and-blue yard sign that says "Jesus 2020."  I'm guessing that the person who placed it is trying to plead for peace between the angry political factions.  It could also perhaps be seen as a kind of polite "a plague on both your houses" statement.  At any rate it's a reminder that there are other things in life.

Maybe for non-religious people there could be a "Civility 2020" sign. It would be intersting to see how that would be received.

[apl68]

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

There are lots of moderates, but they tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut because they're tired of being villified by both sides, including the media who pander to one side or the other. A nuanced position which doesn't have an immediate, simple, emotionally satisfying "solution" to any specific problem is unacceptable.

There is an awful lot of that unattractive "if you're not for us you're against us" stuff out there.

And then there are those who don't look to politics for our salvation.  In our neighborhood there is a conspicuously red-and-blue yard sign that says "Jesus 2020."  I'm guessing that the person who placed it is trying to plead for peace between the angry political factions.  It could also perhaps be seen as a kind of polite "a plague on both your houses" statement.  At any rate it's a reminder that there are other things in life.

Maybe for non-religious people there could be a "Civility 2020" sign. It would be intersting to see how that would be received.

I'd vote for that candidate.

[marshwiggle]

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

There are lots of moderates, but they tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut because they're tired of being villified by both sides, including the media who pander to one side or the other. A nuanced position which doesn't have an immediate, simple, emotionally satisfying "solution" to any specific problem is unacceptable.

There is an awful lot of that unattractive "if you're not for us you're against us" stuff out there.

And then there are those who don't look to politics for our salvation.  In our neighborhood there is a conspicuously red-and-blue yard sign that says "Jesus 2020."  I'm guessing that the person who placed it is trying to plead for peace between the angry political factions.  It could also perhaps be seen as a kind of polite "a plague on both your houses" statement.  At any rate it's a reminder that there are other things in life.

Maybe for non-religious people there could be a "Civility 2020" sign. It would be intersting to see how that would be received.

I'd vote for that candidate.

But they'd never get any media coverage. Outrage sells!

[Sun_Worshiper]

Are there any 'moderates' anymore, or has the world in the middle been taken over by 'yellow lines and dead armadillos?"

There are lots of moderates, but they tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut because they're tired of being villified by both sides, including the media who pander to one side or the other. A nuanced position which doesn't have an immediate, simple, emotionally satisfying "solution" to any specific problem is unacceptable.

There is an awful lot of that unattractive "if you're not for us you're against us" stuff out there.

And then there are those who don't look to politics for our salvation.  In our neighborhood there is a conspicuously red-and-blue yard sign that says "Jesus 2020."  I'm guessing that the person who placed it is trying to plead for peace between the angry political factions.  It could also perhaps be seen as a kind of polite "a plague on both your houses" statement.  At any rate it's a reminder that there are other things in life.

Maybe for non-religious people there could be a "Civility 2020" sign. It would be intersting to see how that would be received.

I'd vote for that candidate.

But they'd never get any media coverage. Outrage sells!

Wasn't that basically Biden's message?