2020 Elections

[writingprof]

So what's the solution here, guys? Or do you really intend to put seventy million people in literal reeducation camps? It doesn't seem wise to move toward a future in which forty percent of the country is silenced online, has no voice in the political process, and is vilified by the elite.

[apl68]

So what's the solution here, guys? Or do you really intend to put seventy million people in literal reeducation camps? It doesn't seem wise to move toward a future in which forty percent of the country is silenced online, has no voice in the political process, and is vilified by the elite.

Or to put writingprof's question in a less confrontational fashion, do other posters here really believe that all Republicans and all 70 million people who voted Trump are really violent racists and fascists?  It's not only the Democrats or the BLM supporters whom I've seen demonized and "othered" by some of the rhetoric here.  EVERYBODY needs to de-escalate their rhetoric if we're to have any hope of peace going forward.

[clean]

Returning to "could Trump win?"

Frankly, I think that it depends a lot on what the democrats do NOW.  The more extreme wing needs to be corralled, or yes, Trump Could Win!  The more the pendulum swings in one direction, the more it can swing back in the other.  IF the Democrats go too extreme (and I dont know what that means... forgive student debt, rent forgiveness/abatement, $20 minimum wage, monthly income guarantees, medicare for all, change tax rates on investment income, free college education, 'green new deal', carbon taxes, ...) the response will be dramatic.  IF Trump is the embodiment of the 'solution to AOC/Sanders' like policies,  then, yes, he stands a chance.

I dont know that even moderate policies would not be viewed by many as 'extreme', but the more progressive the move, the more there will be a push back, and the more the extremes will be seen as necessary to push things back to neutral.

It is for the Democrats to lose. 

[Sun_Worshiper]

So what's the solution here, guys? Or do you really intend to put seventy million people in literal reeducation camps? It doesn't seem wise to move toward a future in which forty percent of the country is silenced online, has no voice in the political process, and is vilified by the elite.

Or to put writingprof's question in a less confrontational fashion, do other posters here really believe that all Republicans and all 70 million people who voted Trump are really violent racists and fascists?  It's not only the Democrats or the BLM supporters whom I've seen demonized and "othered" by some of the rhetoric here.  EVERYBODY needs to de-escalate their rhetoric if we're to have any hope of peace going forward.

You are right, but we also have to confront the reality that Republican party has embraced untruth, conspiracy, and authoritarianism. This is true of much of the party elite and too many voters for comfort. De-escalation is necessary, but there is a challenge to meeting people in the middle when they are not even operating in the same reality.

Returning to "could Trump win?"

Frankly, I think that it depends a lot on what the democrats do NOW.  The more extreme wing needs to be corralled, or yes, Trump Could Win!  The more the pendulum swings in one direction, the more it can swing back in the other.  IF the Democrats go too extreme (and I dont know what that means... forgive student debt, rent forgiveness/abatement, $20 minimum wage, monthly income guarantees, medicare for all, change tax rates on investment income, free college education, 'green new deal', carbon taxes, ...) the response will be dramatic.  IF Trump is the embodiment of the 'solution to AOC/Sanders' like policies,  then, yes, he stands a chance.

I dont know that even moderate policies would not be viewed by many as 'extreme', but the more progressive the move, the more there will be a push back, and the more the extremes will be seen as necessary to push things back to neutral.

It is for the Democrats to lose. 

Trump is an enormously unpopular figure, who just lost the election and cost the Republicans the House and Senate. His popularity will surely be shown to have dropped significantly in polls to come based on his post-election behavior. I would bet quite a lot that his political career is over.

Putting that aside, Democrats with Biden and the current slim majorities they have will not be passing legislation of the sorts that are highlighted in this post.

[clean]

Trump is an enormously unpopular figure, who just lost the election

You know, I wish that this were true, and I hope that his popularity has dropped given his post election actions.  However, as much as people tout the number of votes that Biden got, people seem to forget that Trump got the second most votes in presidential election history.  Biden won by 7 million votes, if I recall the numbers. However, he wont more states than Biden, and many of those 7 million excess votes are from California alone. 

would bet quite a lot that his political career is over.

Frankly, Im on the same side of that bet.  I believe that his political career is over as well. I would go further to say that I dont think that he will even be able to resume his TV career, but given the quality of TV lately, I am not as confident on that one!!

Putting that aside, Democrats with Biden and the current slim majorities they have will not be passing legislation of the sorts that are highlighted in this post.

Again, I agree that the probability of passing these (or anything without some bipartisan support) is slimmer, but the more the more often that the VP is used/needed to pass legislation, the more that will fall into the more this benefits the Republicans return to power. 

(BY THE WAY, BIDEN is on TV now and just advocated a $15 minimum wage).

[mamselle]

Several states just passed that, so why is that surprising?

It is indeed difficult to balance things out; the basic pay for a decent staff assistant here is double that to start at, but that's because of CoL.

My sibs in Michigan and cousins in Ohio may not make as much, but they are not wealthy and could not exist on 9 an hour, either.

So, different states, different rates, maybe, yes, but 15 an hour is almost nothing anymore.

M.

[lightning]

So what's the solution here, guys? Or do you really intend to put seventy million people in literal reeducation camps? It doesn't seem wise to move toward a future in which forty percent of the country is silenced online, has no voice in the political process, and is vilified by the elite.

Or to put writingprof's question in a less confrontational fashion, do other posters here really believe that all Republicans and all 70 million people who voted Trump are really violent racists and fascists?  It's not only the Democrats or the BLM supporters whom I've seen demonized and "othered" by some of the rhetoric here.  EVERYBODY needs to de-escalate their rhetoric if we're to have any hope of peace going forward.

No. Not all Republicans are violent racists and fascists, but you don't have to be a card-carrying member of the KKK to vote for Trump and empower him to carry out the wants of the KKK, neo-Nazis, Proud Boys, etc. For many that voted for Trump, and for the Republican politicians that unwaveringly supported Trump for four years, his racist platform, divisive rhetoric, and overall idiocy wasn't a dealbreaker. Consequently, their vote & support, respectively, put and kept the man in office who STOKED division as a matter of routine rhetoric and INCITED the insurrection at the Capitol.

A president, elected by liberals, DID NOT incite 2020 civil unrest. Liberals did not vote anyone into office that incited the 2020 "riots."

That's one of the differences, among many others, between the 2020 "riots" and the June 6, 2021 "riots." The "riot" of January 6, 2021 was incited by the president.

And that's why any time someone draws equivalencies between June 6 and 2020 #BLM, I get really agitated.

[spork]

An instructive video with explanation.

And an image of one of the many "protestors" who were armed and appeared intent on taking members of Congress hostage.

In addition to the explosive devices found at the DNC and RNC headquarters, there was Lonnie Coffman's pick-up truck filled with firearms, ammunition, napalm, and Molotov cocktails.

Meanwhile Trump was calling senators trying to get them to overturn the election.

[mahagonny]

So what's the solution here, guys? Or do you really intend to put seventy million people in literal reeducation camps? It doesn't seem wise to move toward a future in which forty percent of the country is silenced online, has no voice in the political process, and is vilified by the elite.

Or to put writingprof's question in a less confrontational fashion, do other posters here really believe that all Republicans and all 70 million people who voted Trump are really violent racists and fascists?  It's not only the Democrats or the BLM supporters whom I've seen demonized and "othered" by some of the rhetoric here.  EVERYBODY needs to de-escalate their rhetoric if we're to have any hope of peace going forward.

No. Not all Republicans are violent racists and fascists, but you don't have to be a card-carrying member of the KKK to vote for Trump and empower him to carry out the wants of the KKK, neo-Nazis, Proud Boys, etc. For many that voted for Trump, and for the Republican politicians that unwaveringly supported Trump for four years, his racist platform, divisive rhetoric, and overall idiocy wasn't a dealbreaker. Consequently, their vote & support, respectively, put and kept the man in office who STOKED division as a matter of routine rhetoric and INCITED the insurrection at the Capitol.

A president, elected by liberals, DID NOT incite 2020 civil unrest. Liberals did not vote anyone into office that incited the 2020 "riots."

That's one of the differences, among many others, between the 2020 "riots" and the June 6, 2021 "riots." The "riot" of January 6, 2021 was incited by the president.

And that's why any time someone draws equivalencies between June 6 and 2020 #BLM, I get really agitated.

Just curious...are you also angry at the black Americans who voted for Trump? He did better with them than any republican candidate has for decades, including the genteel Mitt Romney. Do you think they know he's racist and vote for him anyway, or do you think they don't believe he's racist? Or do you actually think they don't know he's a racist? Is that your estimation of blacks?
And please, let's not bring up his dealings with tenants in 1980 or whenever. People change.
It amazes me that certain left leaners routinely routinely throw out that Trump is a flaming racist (even mentioning his ties to the KKK, which is now so small in membership it would hardly be worth any politician's time to even keep their phone number on file) When so many Americans do not believe that. You can certainly believe it, but it's not necessarily the word on Main Street. At all.
Know what I hope? That Tim Scott, Candace Owens, Kimberly Klacik, Coleman Hughes and their crowd whip the democrats' asses in the next ten years. We're so stuck in the USA. We need new faces, new optimism. Ideas.
Just saying.

[mahagonny]

con't

I can't find the article now, but there was a recent piece that attempted to explain why more black men have been voting for Trump. The theory (though stated more as a plain fact) was that Trump's chauvinistic domination of females appeals to black men who are trying to reach a new station in life by achieving parity with the classic white American male, who dominates women contempt fully. There are actually people writing this unbelievable stupid shit. And they are not considered fringe people. There are considered legitimate journalists, academics. By the elite Left...who else?
Just...wow. Insulting to blacks, much?

[Puget]

Here's an interesting new piece of information (at least to me)-- it seems that if impeachment begins while someone is still in office it can continue even if they leave office, to prevent them from ever serving again. So conceivably the Senate trial could be held after the 20th, with Ds in control of the chamber. You still need 2/3 to convict though-- have enough Senate Rs finally had enough? Doubtful, but we'll see.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/impeachment-president-trump-capitol.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

In other news, Murkowski is openly threatening to leave the R party. Given that she won *as a write-in* after being primaried before, and Alaska just adopted an open top-4 primary with ranked-choice voting in the general system, there doesn't seem to be much downside for her to become an independent and caucusing with the Ds. She can probably get some good committee spots in exchange for preventing Harris from having to spend quite so much time breaking ties. Collins may also be tempted I imagine.

[lightning]

So what's the solution here, guys? Or do you really intend to put seventy million people in literal reeducation camps? It doesn't seem wise to move toward a future in which forty percent of the country is silenced online, has no voice in the political process, and is vilified by the elite.

Or to put writingprof's question in a less confrontational fashion, do other posters here really believe that all Republicans and all 70 million people who voted Trump are really violent racists and fascists?  It's not only the Democrats or the BLM supporters whom I've seen demonized and "othered" by some of the rhetoric here.  EVERYBODY needs to de-escalate their rhetoric if we're to have any hope of peace going forward.

No. Not all Republicans are violent racists and fascists, but you don't have to be a card-carrying member of the KKK to vote for Trump and empower him to carry out the wants of the KKK, neo-Nazis, Proud Boys, etc. For many that voted for Trump, and for the Republican politicians that unwaveringly supported Trump for four years, his racist platform, divisive rhetoric, and overall idiocy wasn't a dealbreaker. Consequently, their vote & support, respectively, put and kept the man in office who STOKED division as a matter of routine rhetoric and INCITED the insurrection at the Capitol.

A president, elected by liberals, DID NOT incite 2020 civil unrest. Liberals did not vote anyone into office that incited the 2020 "riots."

That's one of the differences, among many others, between the 2020 "riots" and the June 6, 2021 "riots." The "riot" of January 6, 2021 was incited by the president.

And that's why any time someone draws equivalencies between June 6 and 2020 #BLM, I get really agitated.

Just curious...are you also angry at the black Americans who voted for Trump? He did better with them than any republican candidate has for decades, including the genteel Mitt Romney. Do you think they know he's racist and vote for him anyway, or do you think they don't believe he's racist? Or do you actually think they don't know he's a racist? Is that your estimation of blacks?
And please, let's not bring up his dealings with tenants in 1980 or whenever. People change.
It amazes me that certain left leaners routinely routinely throw out that Trump is a flaming racist (even mentioning his ties to the KKK, which is now so small in membership it would hardly be worth any politician's time to even keep their phone number on file) When so many Americans do not believe that. You can certainly believe it, but it's not necessarily the word on Main Street. At all.
Know what I hope? That Tim Scott, Candace Owens, Kimberly Klacik, Coleman Hughes and their crowd whip the democrats' asses in the next ten years. We're so stuck in the USA. We need new faces, new optimism. Ideas.
Just saying.

It doesn't matter who voted for Trump. More African-Americans than expected, voting for Trump, does not negate the racism of Trump/MAGA (in whole or in part) nor does it confer absolution (in whole or in part) on Trump and MAGA. That would be the same as saying that Ashanti complicity in the West African slave trade, mitigates the atrocities committed by the Dutch and the English slave traders and the American slave owners.

We can certainly examine the nuances of the relatively few African American voters who voted for Trump (believe me, MAGA/Trump supporters like to remind everyone of the African Americans who voted for Trump, so I'm completely aware of that), and you bring up some very interesting and startling points. But using this outlier to make the leap to buttressing your ambiguous red herring counterpoint and your assertion that my argument demonstrates a lower estimation of the African-American voting block? Puuhhhllllleeeeaazzzz . . . you have much better things to do than that.

You know what I sincerely hope? (although I'm not getting my hopes up) I hope that we, as higher education professionals, can finally get support and leadership from DC that can help get higher ed get back on track. It's not that our jobs are better under Democrats, because it isn't. It's simply much worse under Republicans. And maybe, just maybe, we can finally re-prioritize the education & research mission of universities, and open up more full-time tenure-track positions, so you don't have to be in adjunct hell anymore.

There. How's that for an off-topic non-sequitur?! (just taking the shortcut to the inevitable pivot--that's all).

[mahagonny]

It doesn't matter who voted for Trump. More African-Americans than expected, voting for Trump, does not negate the racism of Trump/MAGA (in whole or in part) nor does it confer absolution (in whole or in part) on Trump and MAGA. That would be the same as saying that Ashanti complicity in the West African slave trade, mitigates the atrocities committed by the Dutch and the English slave traders and the American slave owners.

We can certainly examine the nuances of the relatively few African American voters who voted for Trump (believe me, MAGA/Trump supporters like to remind everyone of the African Americans who voted for Trump, so I'm completely aware of that), and you bring up some very interesting and startling points. But using this outlier to make the leap to buttressing your ambiguous red herring counterpoint and your assertion that my argument demonstrates a lower estimation of the African-American voting block? Puuhhhllllleeeeaazzzz . . . you have much better things to do than that.

You know what I sincerely hope? (although I'm not getting my hopes up) I hope that we, as higher education professionals, can finally get support and leadership from DC that can help get higher ed get back on track. It's not that our jobs are better under Democrats, because it isn't. It's simply much worse under Republicans. And maybe, just maybe, we can finally re-prioritize the education & research mission of universities, and open up more full-time tenure-track positions, so you don't have to be in adjunct hell anymore.

There. How's that for an off-topic non-sequitur?! (just taking the shortcut to the inevitable pivot--that's all).

Long as you're going there, i am not qualified for the tenure track and never will be. I'll be qualified for medicare soon.  I am content with my lot in my fashion, but there is no reason higher education hiring practices are above criticism just because intelligent accomplished people like their privileges. Higher ed under democrats in government will not improve things for adjunct faculty and you don't believe they will either. Stop pretending I'm that stupid. It will save both of us time. The best thing that would happen could be more national health care, which would also be another windfall for the tenure track as they will stop giving us CLA raises.
Difference between libertarians and liberals: libertarians love the dead end academic job market and work hard to maintain it. Liberals hate the dead academic job market. They work hard to maintain it too.
Re: Trump and his racism -- have you listened to John McWhorter's video where he explains that the anti-racism/white fragility mantra amounts to a view of black people as temperamentally unable to cope with the outside world, inferior? You might find it interesting. He's no fan of Trump, but he quietly blows the lid off of the left's sense of supreme entitlement to the black vote.

[spork]

NYT article on failures at all levels to protect the U.S. Capitol:

"There was a failure among law enforcement to imagine that people who 'look like me' would do this." (some of the rioters were reportedly police officers from jurisdictions in various states)

And guess what? It's not over. Georgia's run-off elections for Senate are not yet certified, and there's chatter about events in state capitals across the country being planned for January 17.

[Sun_Worshiper]

We should expect right wing terrorism targeting both policymakers to become increasingly common in the next few years. Thanks to Trump for ginning up his supporters with lies and Republicans for either actively or passively supporting his efforts.