2020 Elections

[mahagonny]

The vehemence of the reaction of the left against Trump from his election I have always found puzzling. Perhaps an answer is that Trump is a modern day Huey Long, threatening the establishment from its left, though it is denounced as right. That would certainly explain the hostility.

Really? I usually agree with what you post. Trump is spiteful, endlessly egotistical, menacing, uncouth, humorless, and oddly successful....not enough?

[spork]

From The New York Times:

"New court documents released this week made clear that some of the people who led the crowd into the Capitol had traveled to Washington intent not on peacefully protesting but to try to overturn the election results by kidnapping, threatening or even assassinating lawmakers."

[mamselle]

I woke up angry that Biden's inaugural celebration must be so curtailed and constrained, not only now by Covid--that was a given, accepted and planned-for--but by Trump's selfish, egotistical insistence on his own place in the limelight, unwilling as he remains to give it up.

There are creatures, Sori, in one of L'Engle's books, maybe "The Wind in the Door"? They are making Charles Wallace sick by their refusal to deepen, to take root and mature, in his mitochondrion. They race around and around, heedless of the mortal danger their silly, selfish wiliness is causing.

L'Engle always wrote at several levels, and whether she got her biology exactly right, the metaphor seems apt to me. We now have this dangerously unrooted gaggle of willfull insurgents among us, wreaking havoc. One of the even got himself elected President, and keeps bringing his cronies to town.

The thing I'm angriest and saddest about is the cruel, mean way he's stolen a celebration from a man who deserves to be glad and share his gladness with his friends and supporters, at least as much as any other President has shared that with theirs.

From a dance under the glitterball for the Obamas, we've descended to troops sleeping in the Capitol's hallways. From a safe, albeit Covid-inflected protocol, we have to install metal detectors in LaTrobe's doorways.

The election was clearly not stolen. But there has indeed been theft, and it's mean-spirited, unnecessary, and frightful. I find that nearly unforgivable, and I don't say that lightly.

M.

[marshwiggle]

The vehemence of the reaction of the left against Trump from his election I have always found puzzling. Perhaps an answer is that Trump is a modern day Huey Long, threatening the establishment from its left, though it is denounced as right. That would certainly explain the hostility.

Really? I usually agree with what you post. Trump is spiteful, endlessly egotistical, menacing, uncouth, humorless, and oddly successful....not enough?

For all of the things we disagree on, I think your list pretty much expresses my feelings on this one. (I'd add short-sighted to the list as well.)  Honestly, the only thing that I think seriously worked in Trump's favour was his anti-wokeness.

Bill Maher said it best.

[mahagonny]

The vehemence of the reaction of the left against Trump from his election I have always found puzzling. Perhaps an answer is that Trump is a modern day Huey Long, threatening the establishment from its left, though it is denounced as right. That would certainly explain the hostility.

Really? I usually agree with what you post. Trump is spiteful, endlessly egotistical, menacing, uncouth, humorless, and oddly successful....not enough?

For all of the things we disagree on, I think your list pretty much expresses my feelings on this one. (I'd add short-sighted to the list as well.)  Honestly, the only thing that I think seriously worked in Trump's favour was his anti-wokeness.

Bill Maher said it best.

Trump was one of the first to hit the politically correct language and attitude police right between the eyes and bluntly. Whether his refusal to be brought on board speaks of courage of conviction or just natural hubris, it worked for me. One could almost say 'even a child of ten could see you've gone around the bend on that one' and then point to Trump.

[mamselle]

She wants a pardon. For storming the Capitol. "I just don't think I deserve a prison sentence for this..." or words to that effect ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons

Shades of, "I really don't deserve a failing grade on the final" it seems to me.

So, a get-out-of-jail-free card for all? Insurrection with impunity? Sure, why not?

If the POTUS gives them to his family and friends like trading stamps, why not the rest of the folks?

Is there a way to stop this? Any brakes left on the truck?

M.

[marshwiggle]

She wants a pardon. For storming the Capitol. "I just don't think I deserve a prison sentence for this..." or words to that effect ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons

Shades of, "I really don't deserve a failing grade on the final" it seems to me.

So, a get-out-of-jail-free card for all? Insurrection with impunity? Sure, why not?

If the POTUS gives them to his family and friends like trading stamps, why not the rest of the folks?

Is there a way to stop this? Any brakes left on the truck?

M.

For perspective:

[J]ournalist Michael Tracey presents an investigative report featuring first-hand stories from shop owners and locals in small US cities that have received minimal coverage throughout the riots. In something of a post-apocalyptic Purge-esque collection, Michael Tracey's interviews showcase the current quality of life in places like Atlantic City, Fort Wayne, Green Bay, Olympia and more.  The impact of the riots in these areas has been the significant destruction of small businesses and housing projects, burnt buildings and cars, shattered glass and windows barricaded with plywood, oftentimes featuring bullet holes.

According to Tracey, who spent six weeks travelling the US collecting testimonies and documenting the unfolding implications of the ongoing riots, "...The primary victims – meaning those who feared for their safety, suffered severe material losses, and whose lives were upended – are themselves minorities, and were targeted by activist whites."

As long as there is no universal consensus on what kind of behaviour is unacceptable, it will just always be an argument about who was "justified".

[spork]

The evolution of all-American terrorism.

[mahagonny]

According to Tracey, who spent six weeks travelling the US collecting testimonies and documenting the unfolding implications of the ongoing riots, "...The primary victims – meaning those who feared for their safety, suffered severe material losses, and whose lives were upended – are themselves minorities, and were targeted by activist whites." [/i]

Hey man, if you want social justice, you've got to be ready to sacrifice.

[marshwiggle]

The evolution of all-American terrorism.

Reveal teams up with Type Investigations to track every domestic terror incident from 2016 through 2019. We unpack the ideologies and tactics of American white supremacists and assess government attempts to combat them.

So, by definition, "domestic terrorists" only exist on the far right.

[jimbogumbo]

According to Tracey, who spent six weeks travelling the US collecting testimonies and documenting the unfolding implications of the ongoing riots, "...The primary victims – meaning those who feared for their safety, suffered severe material losses, and whose lives were upended – are themselves minorities, and were targeted by activist whites." [/i]

Hey man, if you want social justice, you've got to be ready to sacrifice.

With regard to one of the mentioned cities Tracy's "reporting" is a complete fiction. I f***ing lived five blocks from the courthouse where the demonstrations took place. I watched them on live feed Friday (first day). Everything was peaceful for hours. Demonstrators then sat down in a major thoroughfare at the courthouse, and the police diverted traffic to another street. After a couple of hours what heavily armed police went in with gas and batons, using that herding technique to send protestors down one street. ALL OF THE DAMAGE WAS ALONG THAT STREET AND TWO OTHERS AT 90 DEGREES FROM THE FIRST. The only damage was broken windows-nothing was burned, mostly by skateboarders. And no, they weren't sent in by Antifa. I passed them on the street regularly.

The same thing happened Saturday (I was there for several hours but had to leave). I watched the ensuing "riot" live For several hours. There was SWAT with gas and batons everywhere. protestors would sit in a street until tear gas, flash bangs and batons were deployed. That was the evening a student journalist who was backing away with his hands up was shot directly in the eye with a tear gas canister and lost his eye. Police said it bounced, but alas there is video (it was prominently featured in the WaPo story on such incidents) directly refuting the police assertion. There were no broken windows that day (acknowledged by police)

I was at the courthouse all day Sunday, and several hours Monday. The police did nothing but stand around on buildings with binoculars and send drones overhead. No violence either day, and none again since.

The businesses with broken windows boarded up the windows Saturday. A bunch (such as a really busy Jimmy John's, a pizza by the slice shop, several popular bars and the Hilton Hotel) maintained their regular business hours.

Local citizens helped clean up Saturday morning after the Friday fiasco, and again Sunday morning.

NO BUSINESSES OR BUILDINGS BURNED, NO MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES OR HOMES DAMAGED. AT ALL.

All the boarded up window were replaced within three weeks; no businesses closed due to the "riots".

[marshwiggle]

According to Tracey, who spent six weeks travelling the US collecting testimonies and documenting the unfolding implications of the ongoing riots, "...The primary victims – meaning those who feared for their safety, suffered severe material losses, and whose lives were upended – are themselves minorities, and were targeted by activist whites." [/i]

Hey man, if you want social justice, you've got to be ready to sacrifice.

With regard to one of the mentioned cities Tracy's "reporting" is a complete fiction.

How about this?

A teenager has been killed and another critically wounded in a shooting in Seattle's autonomous zone.

One teenager, 16, was fatally shot and died after being taken to hospital. The other victim, 14, is in intensive care.

The zone, initially known as Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (Chaz) and now called Capitol Hill Occupied Protest (Chop), was set up amid protests over the killing of George Floyd.

As it is part of a protest against police brutality, it is self-policing.

And the swift, decisive response from the mayor:

The Mayor met four days ago with many of the demonstrators to discuss her continued safety concerns and asked individuals to depart for their safety and the safety of the community.

It's hard to find, because new outlets are desperately trying to avoid mentioning that the youths who were shot were black, and the people patrolling the area with weapons seemd to be mostly white. It seems as long as the people committing the violence are "allies" for whatever cause, it doesn't really matter if the shooters are white and the victims are black.

[jimbogumbo]

How about you respond to what I wrote? I clearly said I was writing about MY city.

[marshwiggle]

How about you respond to what I wrote? I clearly said I was writing about MY city.

If the information about your city was wrong, there are still other places (such as Seattle) where there is a lot of documentation of ongoing violence.

To be clear: I don't care whether rioters are from left or right, whether they are environmental activists or climate-change deniers, pro-life or pro-choice, etc. If they are destroying property and breaking the law, and especially if they are engaging in violence, they should be arrested, jailed, and charged. The alternative is easy to see in Venezuela or Syria.

[jimbogumbo]

How about you respond to what I wrote? I clearly said I was writing about MY city.

If the information about your city was wrong, there are still other places (such as Seattle) where there is a lot of documentation of ongoing violence.

To be clear: I don't care whether rioters are from left or right, whether they are environmental activists or climate-change deniers, pro-life or pro-choice, etc. If they are destroying property and breaking the law, and especially if they are engaging in violence, they should be arrested, jailed, and charged. The alternative is easy to see in Venezuela or Syria.

May I be clear? Of course there is ongoing violence. You are willfully obtuse about the extent overreaction by the police caused a bunch of the problem. That was my city (Fort Wayne, fwiw), Indianapolis and please don't pretend you've forgotten DC when the President had his infamous Bible photo op.

The other complete falsehood is the statement that the damage was primarily due to white activists. We watched in real time what happened in Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit and LA. Please STOP generalizing the Portland and Seattle situations to the entire United States. Unlike you this is my country, and I have to live with all this.