Trump's followers are now turning on him?

[ciao_yall]

Looking to the social scientists and historians in the room to interpret the apparent sudden change of heart among the Proud Boys and QAnon.

Some are feeling duped that Trump would suddenly bail on them. He told them to fight, and now he is hiding at his posh Florida Country Club while they get fired and/or imprisoned on federal charges for fighting for him.

For those of you with more perspective, is this... real? Widespread? Or a bit of "dog bites man?"

[mamselle]

Trump's only concerns are himself, and maybe his family members (although I'm betting Melania divorces him in a year).

I'm sorry the poor dears at QA and Proud Babies were duped, but maybe they'll learn something?

Ever since my eyes were opened about the Republican party (interthreaduality) I've been saddened that a group of people with some serious acumen in some areas (some very good speech-makers, historians, and speakers among the more traditional Repubs, for example) can be so duplicitous.

All for them and none for all, it seems to me, is the realpolitik there.

M.

[Puget]

I'm in psychology but this is pretty far outside my area. But for what it's worth--
I think you need to separate QAnon from the far right groups like the Proud Boys.

QAnon is probably best thought of as a millennial cult. Trump was their savior/king, and played a big roll in their entire world view, and there were specific prophesies about what would happen which did not come true. What do members of a millennial cult do when their prophesies don't happen on schedule? Well, some do become disillusioned and conclude they were duped, but others just find it too difficult to let go of their beliefs and world view, and just find a way to explain away the discrepancy -- e.g., maybe they interpreted the prophecy incorrectly before, and it will happen later, or in a different way, or something has changed but this is all still part of the "plan". Articles from journalists monitoring QAnon message boards suggest both those things are happening.

The far right  groups on the other hand long predate Trump. They thought he was on their side or at least a fellow traveler, but in the end he was a coward and/or just using them and so they are done with him. Many are apparently saying they are done with the Republican party and conventional politics in general and are aligning themselves with separatist/secessionist militia groups. This is scary stuff, but if they stop voting and the FBI keeps close tabs on them it may be better than having them take over the GOP.

[Ruralguy]

I think they are both simply signaling that they are ready for a new savior. But I really doubt any current Republican prospect for the White House will claim them.

[spork]

I'm in psychology but this is pretty far outside my area. But for what it's worth--
I think you need to separate QAnon from the far right groups like the Proud Boys.

QAnon is probably best thought of as a millennial cult. Trump was their savior/king, and played a big roll in their entire world view, and there were specific prophesies about what would happen which did not come true. What do members of a millennial cult do when their prophesies don't happen on schedule? Well, some do become disillusioned and conclude they were duped, but others just find it too difficult to let go of their beliefs and world view, and just find a way to explain away the discrepancy -- e.g., maybe they interpreted the prophecy incorrectly before, and it will happen later, or in a different way, or something has changed but this is all still part of the "plan". Articles from journalists monitoring QAnon message boards suggest both those things are happening.

The far right  groups on the other hand long predate Trump. They thought he was on their side or at least a fellow traveler, but in the end he was a coward and/or just using them and so they are done with him. Many are apparently saying they are done with the Republican party and conventional politics in general and are aligning themselves with separatist/secessionist militia groups. This is scary stuff, but if they stop voting and the FBI keeps close tabs on them it may be better than having them take over the GOP.

From the millennial cult standpoint, the white evangelicals who supported Trump have much more overlap with QAnon than they do with the neo-Nazi crowd.

[apl68]

I'm in psychology but this is pretty far outside my area. But for what it's worth--
I think you need to separate QAnon from the far right groups like the Proud Boys.

QAnon is probably best thought of as a millennial cult. Trump was their savior/king, and played a big roll in their entire world view, and there were specific prophesies about what would happen which did not come true. What do members of a millennial cult do when their prophesies don't happen on schedule? Well, some do become disillusioned and conclude they were duped, but others just find it too difficult to let go of their beliefs and world view, and just find a way to explain away the discrepancy -- e.g., maybe they interpreted the prophecy incorrectly before, and it will happen later, or in a different way, or something has changed but this is all still part of the "plan". Articles from journalists monitoring QAnon message boards suggest both those things are happening.

The far right  groups on the other hand long predate Trump. They thought he was on their side or at least a fellow traveler, but in the end he was a coward and/or just using them and so they are done with him. Many are apparently saying they are done with the Republican party and conventional politics in general and are aligning themselves with separatist/secessionist militia groups. This is scary stuff, but if they stop voting and the FBI keeps close tabs on them it may be better than having them take over the GOP.

From the millennial cult standpoint, the white evangelicals who supported Trump have much more overlap with QAnon than they do with the neo-Nazi crowd.

And that's really disturbing, because it shows that a lot of people who ought to know better are falling for false prophets in a big way.

MOST of Trump's evangelical supporters weren't QAnon believers, it bears repeating.  But he falls firmly into the false prophet category himself.  I still can't help wondering whether his presidency has to some extent been a dry run for the Antichrist.  I hope the widespread disillusion with Trump causes people to think twice before making the same mistake with some other charismatic leader.

[marshwiggle]

MOST of Trump's evangelical supporters weren't QAnon believers, it bears repeating.  But he falls firmly into the false prophet category himself.  I still can't help wondering whether his presidency has to some extent been a dry run for the Antichrist.  I hope the widespread disillusion with Trump causes people to think twice before making the same mistake with some other charismatic leader.

You may not have seen as much Canadian news as we do, but when Trudeau got elected in 2015 all kinds of media (including in the US) fawned all over him like he was divine.

Trump is in no way unique, and the phenomenon isn't restricted to any particular place on the political spectrum.

[spork]

I'm in psychology but this is pretty far outside my area. But for what it's worth--
I think you need to separate QAnon from the far right groups like the Proud Boys.

QAnon is probably best thought of as a millennial cult. Trump was their savior/king, and played a big roll in their entire world view, and there were specific prophesies about what would happen which did not come true.
[. . . ]

From the millennial cult standpoint, the white evangelicals who supported Trump have much more overlap with QAnon than they do with the neo-Nazi crowd.

And that's really disturbing, because it shows that a lot of people who ought to know better are falling for false prophets in a big way.

MOST of Trump's evangelical supporters weren't QAnon believers, it bears repeating.  But he falls firmly into the false prophet category himself. 

Trump's evangelical supporters quite willingly ignored the "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" rule.

I still can't help wondering whether his presidency has to some extent been a dry run for the Antichrist. 

People like Mike Pompeo seemed to have thought the Day of Judgment was near.

I hope the widespread disillusion with Trump causes people to think twice before making the same mistake with some other charismatic leader.

Doubtful. White evangelical Trump supporters probably think they came *so close* to holding state power that they will eagerly pray to false idols in the future.

[mahagonny]

It's true, he certainly is a coward, and his bone spurs were probably acting up on him again on January 6. But he's also not a white supremacist, so anyone who wanted that type of leader will eventually be disappointed. I suspect he was surprised that the insurrection went as far as it did, although this doesn't mean he shouldn't be blamed for inciting them. He should. I picture more that Trump envisioned them making a lot of noise and everyone finally saying, OK, let's have another look at what's going on and see if the election was straight up and honest.

[mamselle]

But he's also not a white supremacist....

Do you meant Trump?

Flamethrower.

-=-=-=-

In other (real) news, C. Lindholm's work on Charisma in leadership is instructive:

   https://www.bu.edu/anthrop/files/2011/09/charisma.pdf

M.

[mahagonny]

But he's also not a white supremacist....

Do you meant Trump?

Flamethrower.

-=-=-=-

In other (real) news, C. Lindholm's work on Charisma in leadership is instructive:

   https://www.bu.edu/anthrop/files/2011/09/charisma.pdf

M.

You actually think he's a Hitler or Idi Amin type don't you?

[spork]

I know plenty of racists that are not dictators.

Central Park Five, housing discrimination in NYC, birther conspiracy promotion, calling Mexicans rapists, calling non-Norways  "shithole countries" . . .

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

[Parasaurolophus]

I still can't help wondering whether his presidency has to some extent been a dry run for the Antichrist.

I enjoy listening to Christian talk radio when I'm in the US. (Not for kind reasons, but I digress.) Back in early 2015, I was driving in the South and listening to a sermon about Revelations and the end times. The person giving the sermon had just one lesson he wanted to impart: the end times will be heralded by the sounding of two trumps. The Bible, he said, mentions loads of trumpets. But it only mentions two trumps, both in Revelations. Revelations tells us that the first trump warns us of the impending beginning of the end. So when we hear it, we have to get ready. But the second trump, now, that's the one that announces that the end has begun.

FWIW, he definitely wasn't talking about candidate Trump (I'm pretty sure the sermon was recorded years before).

Make of that what you will.

[mamselle]

Oh, no, NOT Ivanka in 2024!

Please, no!

Someone send out Eliphaz the Temenite to dissuade her, please.

Now.

M.

[dismalist]

Hell, Ivanka, it worked for Isabel Peron, at least briefly. Then there's Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, another Peronist. These are wives of. No reason a daughter of can't have a chance.

Peron is much closer to Trump than, say, Hitler, or even Mussolini. I presume the Democrats did not accuse Trump of being  a Peronist because that might have increased his popularity. :-)

Are we immune to Peronism? Or are we all Peronists?