Trump's followers are now turning on him?

[mahagonny]

Yes, but I think he also used a lot of this to distract from other areas where he was completely deceitful.  For example, he acted as if he cares about the little people and that was his motivation for the tax cuts, but I think it is pretty clear who the biggest winners from that were. 

I found it interesting how he made so many people think he was one of them because of how he spoke when he was born with a silver spoon and has never faced anybody the same issues.  Ironic of him railing against the "elites".

Not to me it wasn't. 'White privilege' does not have to mean you're Donald Trump born to a tycoon businessman father. It means you have white skin and are somehow harming others thereby. And only idiots don't see the idiocy of that. And it comes to us from the elite left who see themselves as eminently educated and aware. Yet when it comes to who is friend to the working man, the jury is still out.

[Descartes]

It's only as ironic for him to present himself as a regular guy as it was for Hilary to mimic the black cadence when speaking in certain situations, or for Obama to suddenly slip into urban-speak at opportune moments (like when he was in a restaurant for a photo op and said to the black guy behind the counter "nah, man, we straight" when being offered his change.)

They're politicians.  They all do it.

As for turning on him, I don't know about that; I do think it's time for him to enjoy retirement and recede into our memories as a past president.  I say that as someone who voted for him.

[Kron3007]

Yes, but I think he also used a lot of this to distract from other areas where he was completely deceitful.  For example, he acted as if he cares about the little people and that was his motivation for the tax cuts, but I think it is pretty clear who the biggest winners from that were. 

I found it interesting how he made so many people think he was one of them because of how he spoke when he was born with a silver spoon and has never faced anybody the same issues.  Ironic of him railing against the "elites".

Not to me it wasn't. 'White privilege' does not have to mean you're Donald Trump born to a tycoon businessman father. It means you have white skin and are somehow harming others thereby. And only idiots don't see the idiocy of that. And it comes to us from the elite left who see themselves as eminently educated and aware. Yet when it comes to who is friend to the working man, the jury is still out.

I didn't say anything about white privilege, I just said that he is the definition of elite.  For people to see him as one of the boys, and think he has their best interest in mind is funny. 

Just like him railing against illegal immigrants while he simultaneously hires many of them.  Or him being tough on crime...

[Kron3007]

It's only as ironic for him to present himself as a regular guy as it was for Hilary to mimic the black cadence when speaking in certain situations, or for Obama to suddenly slip into urban-speak at opportune moments (like when he was in a restaurant for a photo op and said to the black guy behind the counter "nah, man, we straight" when being offered his change.)

They're politicians.  They all do it.

As for turning on him, I don't know about that; I do think it's time for him to enjoy retirement and recede into our memories as a past president.  I say that as someone who voted for him.

I never saw Hilary do that, but that's not to say she didn't.  Regarding Obama, I don't really see an issue.  I'm sure Bush would use southern slang while visiting a Texas BBQ for a photo op. 

These examples are a little different than Trump railing against the "elite".  You may not see a difference, but that is your choice

[ciao_yall]

It's only as ironic for him to present himself as a regular guy as it was for Hilary to mimic the black cadence when speaking in certain situations, or for Obama to suddenly slip into urban-speak at opportune moments (like when he was in a restaurant for a photo op and said to the black guy behind the counter "nah, man, we straight" when being offered his change.)

They're politicians.  They all do it.

As for turning on him, I don't know about that; I do think it's time for him to enjoy retirement and recede into our memories as a past president.  I say that as someone who voted for him.

It is also called "code switching." My speech patterns have been influenced over my life by having lived for extended periods in New Jersey, Los Angeles, and the South. So when talking to people from my life who retain those speech patterns I naturally slide into them. I'm not trying to be ironic. It's just that those patterns still live deep in my lizard brain and I pick them up when naturally "mirroring" other speakers.

[mahagonny]

Most politicians speak like attorneys. The most deft ones could tell you to go to hell so nicely you'd look forward to the trip. Trump had none of that burden so he seemed real. The gift for him was it was easy to do and it won votes. The downside was eventually people had had enough of the rudeness. So now we have a pair of lawyers again.

[kaysixteen]

The woman who told me she expected horrible things from the Biden admin, when pressed, would only say that she was concerned that he would 'try to compel good behavior' while calling good evil and evil good.   I have asked her for follow-up, but it has occurred to me that she has not thought things through well, despite not being a cable tv viewer or rightie radio listener, and being pretty even-keeled on social media to the extent that she even spends any time thereon.  The tribal id politics I mentioned is not a good thing, not when one surrenders one's own identity and especially one's thinking for oneself, to those groupthink opinions, which is pretty standard, and one refuses to consider news and info sources outside of one's bubble.  But in my own church today, prayers were offered to the effect that God should grant us the ability to persevere through the (essentially certain to be coming) wave of anti-evangelical persecution.   Like I said yesterday, I am tiring of this 'evangelical' self-identification.   And I am coming to resent deeply the anti-intellectualism and associated contempt for people like me.

[mahagonny]

Yes, but I think he also used a lot of this to distract from other areas where he was completely deceitful.  For example, he acted as if he cares about the little people and that was his motivation for the tax cuts, but I think it is pretty clear who the biggest winners from that were. 

I found it interesting how he made so many people think he was one of them because of how he spoke when he was born with a silver spoon and has never faced anybody the same issues.  Ironic of him railing against the "elites".

Not to me it wasn't. 'White privilege' does not have to mean you're Donald Trump born to a tycoon businessman father. It means you have white skin and are somehow harming others thereby. And only idiots don't see the idiocy of that. And it comes to us from the elite left who see themselves as eminently educated and aware. Yet when it comes to who is friend to the working man, the jury is still out.

I didn't say anything about white privilege, I just said that he is the definition of elite.  For people to see him as one of the boys, and think he has their best interest in mind is funny. 

Just like him railing against illegal immigrants while he simultaneously hires many of them.  Or him being tough on crime...

I'm sure he has been hypocritical in his practices but he has often been consistent in his policy aims and I think people have counted on him for that and not without reason. Whereas a guy like Biden may be so compromise friendly that one wonders whether has much of anything in mind in the long term.
Years ago Biden was coming out strongly for criminalizing hiring illegal immigrants. Yet he's pretty wimpy on border control. Go figure.
I think a guy who has run huge businesses, like Trump, has at least an equal chance at empathizing with those who run small businesses, if not a better chance than the career politician has, especially the democratic ones.

[Kron3007]

Yes, but I think he also used a lot of this to distract from other areas where he was completely deceitful.  For example, he acted as if he cares about the little people and that was his motivation for the tax cuts, but I think it is pretty clear who the biggest winners from that were. 

I found it interesting how he made so many people think he was one of them because of how he spoke when he was born with a silver spoon and has never faced anybody the same issues.  Ironic of him railing against the "elites".

Not to me it wasn't. 'White privilege' does not have to mean you're Donald Trump born to a tycoon businessman father. It means you have white skin and are somehow harming others thereby. And only idiots don't see the idiocy of that. And it comes to us from the elite left who see themselves as eminently educated and aware. Yet when it comes to who is friend to the working man, the jury is still out.

I didn't say anything about white privilege, I just said that he is the definition of elite.  For people to see him as one of the boys, and think he has their best interest in mind is funny. 

Just like him railing against illegal immigrants while he simultaneously hires many of them.  Or him being tough on crime...

I'm sure he has been hypocritical in his practices but he has often been consistent in his policy aims and I think people have counted on him for that and not without reason. Whereas a guy like Biden may be so compromise friendly that one wonders whether has much of anything in mind in the long term.
Years ago Biden was coming out strongly for criminalizing hiring illegal immigrants. Yet he's pretty wimpy on border control. Go figure.
I think a guy who has run huge businesses, like Trump, has at least an equal chance at empathizing with those who run small businesses, if not a better chance than the career politician has, especially the democratic ones.

Yes, Biden has had a long career and has changed his stance on many things, but if you look over the same period with trump you will see some similar things.  For example, he was historically in favour of gun control, but that was not politically expedient so he flipped his stance.  He is obviously not a religious man, yet he was signing Bible's and pretending.

To think Trump is somehow different and more consistent because he doesn't disguise his A-holeness is just willful blindness.  I really don't think Trump cares too much about a lot of the things he was pushing forward, but they were politically helpful and helped him push the things he does care about through (ie tax breaks, deregulation, etc).

[lightning]

The prophesies of QAnon that didn't come true, will be explained away like a rapture that didn't happen. "The Storm" will become a metaphor or a living symbol whose meaning will be generalized into a non-specific event that will happen at a non-specific time in the future. Like the multiple raptures that have been predicted but never happened, "The Storm" will still be floated in social media lore and ambiguous prophesy.

As for the continued appeal of Trump to the other segments of the far-right, like the self-styled armed militias, etc., I don't know what to think.

His appeal was largely due to a large segment of the population whose needs and views were finally being represented and validated after decades of having to keep their true selves in the closet. Every time he opened his ignoramus mouth, his ignoramus followers felt validated and celebrated and appreciated and in charge. His many ignoramus followers saw themselves in him, especially with the brusque & dumb rhetoric. It's for this reason that I think Trump will continue to be appealing to them in some respects.

OTOH, the king ignoramus holding the office of the presidency was their ultimate validation. When he won in 2016, his followers, many of whom were probably losers most of their life, also felt like real winners for the first time, and they reveled in it. With Trump's loss of the election and without the office of the presidency, Trump's far-right ignoramuses have lost their winner identity. I don't think they will turn on Trump, but they will probably drop him as a social identifier, in much the same way that bandwagon sports fans are no longer fans of a sports team, when their adopted championship team cycles to a losing season(s).

Trump will probably become a symbol, much like the Confederate flag. The Civil War lasted four years, just like the Trump presidency. Just because the South lost doesn't mean they will tuck their tail and walk away head down. Trump's loss of the presidency will become just like the South's loss of the Civil War. Yeah, they lost. Yeah, they felt like humiliated losers. But the fight itself (like the Jan. 6 terrorist attack at the Capitol) will become a symbol of rebellion in their hearts, that will unify a beaten people and leave the door open for another Trump-like figure in the future.

[fishbrains]

The woman who told me she expected horrible things from the Biden admin, when pressed, would only say that she was concerned that he would 'try to compel good behavior' while calling good evil and evil good.   I have asked her for follow-up, but it has occurred to me that she has not thought things through well, despite not being a cable tv viewer or rightie radio listener, and being pretty even-keeled on social media to the extent that she even spends any time thereon.  The tribal id politics I mentioned is not a good thing, not when one surrenders one's own identity and especially one's thinking for oneself, to those groupthink opinions, which is pretty standard, and one refuses to consider news and info sources outside of one's bubble.  But in my own church today, prayers were offered to the effect that God should grant us the ability to persevere through the (essentially certain to be coming) wave of anti-evangelical persecution.   Like I said yesterday, I am tiring of this 'evangelical' self-identification.   And I am coming to resent deeply the anti-intellectualism and associated contempt for people like me.

The idea that a Christian could only vote for Trump because Biden will obviously send hordes of LGBTQ+ abortion doctors who are in the country illegally to come take away our guns and then close our churches was/is very strong in my region (mid-South). The "persecuted Christian" identity that was happening before Trump came to power hasn't helped matters.

Now the idea that COVID vaccine has "aborted babies" in it is making the rounds. Uggers. At least we have moved past the microchip-in-the-vaccine scare---I hope.

Interesting times.   

[kaysixteen]

My friend won't seriously get at her views wrt Biden and Trump, and I am not sure it is worth pursuing with her.   That said, something that is clear is that she and I do not share the same fact basis.  This is true even though she is not a cable/ talk radio/ righty web user.   How does one deal with this?

[ciao_yall]

My friend won't seriously get at her views wrt Biden and Trump, and I am not sure it is worth pursuing with her.   That said, something that is clear is that she and I do not share the same fact basis.  This is true even though she is not a cable/ talk radio/ righty web user.   How does one deal with this?

Talk about other things?

[Sun_Worshiper]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/27/post-trump-gop-462864?cid=apn

Seems like GOP plan after losing the House, Senate, and Presidency is to double down on a man who is deeply unpopular beyond the Republican base.

[apl68]

My friend won't seriously get at her views wrt Biden and Trump, and I am not sure it is worth pursuing with her.   That said, something that is clear is that she and I do not share the same fact basis.  This is true even though she is not a cable/ talk radio/ righty web user.   How does one deal with this?

Something I have had to learn, and am still working on, is the understanding that it's not our job to fix people.  It's our job to be the best light in a dark world that we can be.  This means following the instructions that Jesus gave for how to live and act.  People see foolish and harmful things happening around them, and get unhappy and worrisome news, and they react by getting angry and worried and resentful. 

Followers of Jesus aren't supposed to live our lives acting angry and worried and resentful.  We are to remember that we have a grace that enables us to deal with anger, a hope that inoculates us against worry, and a humility that guards us against resentment and offense.  Your churchgoing friend's problem is that she is forgetting these things.  You can help to remind her by practicing them in your own life.

We have a staff member right now who has been spending an awful lot of time by herself (she's trying hard to stay out of COVID's way, and is estranged from much of her family).  Evidently she has been listening to some of the wrong kinds of radio and internet preachers.  This has been stealing her joy and her victory over the world.  It's sad to see her this way, since I know she's better than this.  Besides, she risks dragging the rest of us down.  I sometimes have these impulses to yell some sense into her.  But I hold it in check, because I know that this would only make us both feel worse.  Instead I pray for her, listen to her legitimate concerns about work, and try to model a constructive approach around her.  That's all I can do for her at this time.