students who declare that they won't show up to class

Started by rabbitandfox23, January 24, 2021, 09:30:33 PM

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downer

Quote from: waterboy on March 05, 2021, 01:03:14 PM
So, when I get a student who is sick for an exam, I now have them do an essay and short answer exam instead of the (admittedly lazy on my part), Scantron exam. Word gets around.

Don't you have to read the essay though? I guess it doesn't happen too often.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

FishProf

This is the ice-water* rule in coaching applied to academics.

*If an athlete complains about an injury, have them stick it in ice-water.  If the injury is real, that's the best immediate therapy.  If it isn't, it is uncomfortable enough (but not harmful) to dissuade fakery.
It's difficult to conclude what people really think when they reason from misinformation.

lightning

Quote from: FishProf on March 05, 2021, 01:20:21 PM
This is the ice-water* rule in coaching applied to academics.

*If an athlete complains about an injury, have them stick it in ice-water.  If the injury is real, that's the best immediate therapy.  If it isn't, it is uncomfortable enough (but not harmful) to dissuade fakery.

I want to stick a student's head into a bucket of ice water.

clean

I dont worry about a student missing an exam. The grade on the comprehensive final replaces the missed exam.  No make up for me to grade!  I dont grade the final any differently, only the spreadsheet needs to be modified to reflect the different weighting.

If you are sick, then you are not able to study now, but will do better on the final . (Also works for grandparent excuses).  "Your first job is to (get better/take care of your family).  The exam material will be covered on the final, and you will be better prepared for the material then anyway as the (illness/death) has prevented you from studying anyway)."

The ones that are in need are thankful, but the ones that were simply stressed are more stressed at the thought that their final will now count closer to 1/2 their grade!
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader

FishProf

This is an alternative version of the ice bucket.

Legit reasons get thanks, non-legit are there own punishment.  Logical Consequences.
It's difficult to conclude what people really think when they reason from misinformation.

eigen

Quote from: clean on March 05, 2021, 01:32:36 PM
I dont worry about a student missing an exam. The grade on the comprehensive final replaces the missed exam.  No make up for me to grade!  I dont grade the final any differently, only the spreadsheet needs to be modified to reflect the different weighting.

If you are sick, then you are not able to study now, but will do better on the final . (Also works for grandparent excuses).  "Your first job is to (get better/take care of your family).  The exam material will be covered on the final, and you will be better prepared for the material then anyway as the (illness/death) has prevented you from studying anyway)."

The ones that are in need are thankful, but the ones that were simply stressed are more stressed at the thought that their final will now count closer to 1/2 their grade!

I alternate between this and an "X out of Y assignments required" that ends up being a "you drop the lowest thing(s) in each category (exam, HW, problem set). It evens out scores for people who start off the semester rough and improve, and I don't have to vet excuses. You can decide not to show up, get a zero, and drop that assignment/exam, or you can show up, get a bad grade, and drop that assignment/exam.

But going back to what Polly said, I think it always has to come back to how it effects the students relative to the stated learning objectives of the class. If them not being there once truly has a negative effect on their classmates, then design a class such that it isn't the case. There's always going to be something that makes someone not show up: car trouble, illness, sudden life happenings. If it's a pattern (same student) or pervasive enough that you don't have a sufficient quantity of students in class, then that's something different than one student here or there.

I appreciate notice from students- it means I don't have to wonder if they're sick or something's wrong when they don't show. And I don't usually care to know why, just that they aren't going to be there.
Quote from: Caracal
Actually reading posts before responding to them seems to be a problem for a number of people on here...

spork

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on January 24, 2021, 10:28:56 PM
I'm more annoyed by getting the email, since it takes some of my energy for the day to open it up. And besides, most of the time the reasons cited aren't any of my business anyway. I don't spend any of my energy noticing or remembering who hasn't shown up for the day.

^ +1. I'm surprised that in 2021 the OP and others who teach at the post-secondary level regard this situation as a problem. I learned how to employ the techniques described in this thread in the late 1990s while a grad student. 
It's terrible writing, used to obfuscate the fact that the authors actually have nothing to say.

jerseyjay

It is not clear to me if it is the same student who is always absent or just you always have a student who cannot show up. If it is the same student, then you should talk to this student and warn him or her that missing so many classes is not good. Then grade accordingly.

If it is a different student, then I really don't see what the problem is, unless the student who misses is one who is assigned to do a particular task (present, etc.) Over the past year, I have had to scramble because of closed schools and daycare, medical facilities that have rescheduled appointments, trying to make inconvenient times for COVID testing and vaccination, driving relatives to work because of bad weather, etc. And if this is my personal life, I assume students are probably in a similar, or even worse, situation. And if the class is in person, there are always students who have been exposed to COVID (or have it themselves) who cannot come to class. Not to mention that by now, a year into the COVID mess, everybody seems a bit beat down and somewhat crazy.

Given the world (a very unstable economy and a pandemic) it seems unrealistic to expect that you won't have at least one student who misses each class. Even in normal times, I give each student a certain number of absences. I specifically ask that they do not email me to tell me why they are absent, because I don't care (unless of course it is serious enough to have a bigger impact on their performance, at which time we need to work something out). But many still do, which is actually polite. I usually email them back thanking them for telling me and tell them to ask a classmate for notes. 

These absences are not about you or course. They are the way that university students have been functioning for at least a century, with the added complication of the times we live in.

If you think students are just not coming because they don't feel like it, you should make an announcement stressing the importance of attendance. Otherwise you should build some redundancy into the course.

Designing a class in which something normal like a student missing classes derails the session is like designing a car without a spare tire. It works....until it doesn't.

If it often students who have to do something (like present or lead a discussion), make sure you stress that this is an expected part of the course, will be graded, and then grade accordingly. And plan on a backup plan for each session in case the student doesn't show up.


fishbrains

Quote from: polly_mer on March 05, 2021, 06:41:32 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 04, 2021, 09:29:07 PM
OK, but how is the exam supposed to be honestly given to any kid who can just sick out, without proper medical documentation?   Does he get to take the same exam that was given to the students who did show up on the announced exam day, or something else?

In many cases, it doesn't matter.  One test alone is generally not the only assessment in the course so one perfect score means nothing.

Even if someone could know all the answers, someone gaming the system instead of learning the material is still likely to fail.

For example, in one gen ed course, I would always give the previous semester's exam as a study guide.  The exam was open notes and I'd tell students they can put anything in their notebook except photocopied full textbook; individual examples and returned homework were allowed to be stapled into the notebook.

One semester, I was so sick that I just ran double copies and gave the same exam as the practice exam.  A handful of students realized they were the same.  I still had nearly the same level of complaints about the exam being like nothing they had ever seen.  The scores were still about the same distribution as a unique test.

In a different course, I assigned as homework an end of chapter quiz in the textbook that had the answers on the following page.  The next week, we had an open-book exam that were the same questions in a different order.  The complaints went to the dean about how hard and unreasonable the exam was and I got to have a meeting to explain myself.

I frequently allowed students to resubmit exams after a week at home with any resources they like except their classmates and people still don't get everything correct.

I have posted answers on the board before exams (e.g., the answer to 3 is c) air), asked students as they turned in their exams if they read the board, and still had students get answers wrong on the front page.

The number of people who successfully cheat in some courses is vanishingly small, especially if they rely on half-remembered material from other students who probably also aren't great in the course.

Ha! This reminds me of my super-grumpy stats professor who told us that he wasn't doing a "study sheet" and that the questions for the comprehensive final would all come straight out of the textbook--and then lectured us for a class period about how students were too lazy to study for their finals. So my study-buddy and I went back and did all the questions in the textbook we hadn't already completed (we were the kind of anal-retentive students who would have probably done this anyway).

One of the questions on the final didn't come from the textbook, and my study-buddy pointed this out to the professor when she had finished her final. I seconded the motion, and pointed out with a smile that I thought I still had the correct answer anyway. He asked gruffly for her textbook, flipped through the pages to prove her wrong, and then finally had to admit that we were correct. By "admit" I mean he curled-up one side of his mouth and grunted loudly. One of the highest compliments I ever received as a student.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program . . .
I wish I could find a way to show people how much I love them, despite all my words and actions. ~ Maria Bamford