San Francisco Renaming Schools

[mahagonny]

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/28/961511395/san-francisco-may-rename-schools-named-after-washington-lincoln-and-others

Discuss.

[dismalist]

As one wit said, time to raze the pyramids.

[marshwiggle]

In the noble tradition of the Taliban destroying the 1400 year old Buddhas.

[Langue_doc]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

[jimbogumbo]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

From the article:

"Lincoln, known for his legacy of emancipation, is included "because of the Civil War president's treatment of American Indians, which included a mass hanging after an uprising," according to the San Francisco Chronicle."

[spork]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Don't know about the racist part, but he was gay. Maybe our first gay racist president?

[Caracal]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Don't know about the racist part, but he was gay. Maybe our first gay racist president?

That was based on a very bad book by a psychologist who didn't understand any of the historical context. Basically the evidence was that Lincoln shared a bed with a man for a number of years. Seems compelling, unless you know that was a very common practice for young men. Beds were expensive.

Also, the level of hyperbole here is pretty ridiculous, even by the standard of the posters engaging in it. Renaming a middle school in San Francisco is not exactly the same as the Taliban destroying ancient monuments or re-education camps...

[Langue_doc]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Don't know about the racist part, but he was gay. Maybe our first gay racist president?

I was being facetious. If we're dredging up past history, perhaps we should throw out the constitution (written by people who owned slaves) and denounce the pilgrims and other early settlers, and their descendants.

I wasn't aware of the gay part. If so then " first gay racist president" would be an apt description.

ETA Just saw Caracal's post. Yes, bed sharing was quite common in those days.

[mahagonny]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Bill Maher, in his typically relentless style: time to cancel Jesus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEw5xe4Ip0I

[spork]

It's a well-established historical fact that Lincoln was gay. That doesn't make him a worse president than Andrew Jackson.

[marshwiggle]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Don't know about the racist part, but he was gay. Maybe our first gay racist president?

That was based on a very bad book by a psychologist who didn't understand any of the historical context. Basically the evidence was that Lincoln shared a bed with a man for a number of years. Seems compelling, unless you know that was a very common practice for young men. Beds were expensive.

Also, the level of hyperbole here is pretty ridiculous, even by the standard of the posters engaging in it. Renaming a middle school in San Francisco is not exactly the same as the Taliban destroying ancient monuments or re-education camps...

Really? Why should people honour someone who believed terrible things? Why should young people be expected to show "respect" for some historical figure who had ideas that they find offensive?
(Buddha said there were (depending on how you interpret it) many gods or no god at all! How can any monotheist listen to that kind of rubbish?)

Or is the argument that the Taliban didn't really believe the Buddha was evil; deep down they knew he was OK, whereas the school renamers are absolutely certain that they are morally right, so they are justified?

[jimbogumbo]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Don't know about the racist part, but he was gay. Maybe our first gay racist president?

I was being facetious.

Sorry! I never know on this site.

Any idea why Feinstein is on the list for renaming? I was pretty surprised there was a Feinstein Elementary (or whatever it is).

[Hibush]

Sorry! I never know on this site.

Any idea why Feinstein is on the list for renaming? I was pretty surprised there was a Feinstein Elementary (or whatever it is).

More than Washington and Lincoln's, the explanation for Feinstein's inclusion gives a sense of the Blue Ribbon Panels sensitivity.

Feinstein, the longtime Democratic senator, is included "because as mayor in 1984 she replaced a vandalized Confederate flag that was part of a long-standing flag display in front of City Hall," The Associated Press reported. "When the flag was pulled down a second time, she did not replace it."

It is possible the this panel will be considered oversensitive by the Board of Education, which makes the final decision. They will also have recommendations from the public and from the schools themselves.

[Caracal]

Didn't realize that Lincoln was a "racist". Time to rewrite history and for re-education camps.

Don't know about the racist part, but he was gay. Maybe our first gay racist president?

That was based on a very bad book by a psychologist who didn't understand any of the historical context. Basically the evidence was that Lincoln shared a bed with a man for a number of years. Seems compelling, unless you know that was a very common practice for young men. Beds were expensive.

Also, the level of hyperbole here is pretty ridiculous, even by the standard of the posters engaging in it. Renaming a middle school in San Francisco is not exactly the same as the Taliban destroying ancient monuments or re-education camps...

Really? Why should people honour someone who believed terrible things? Why should young people be expected to show "respect" for some historical figure who had ideas that they find offensive?
(Buddha said there were (depending on how you interpret it) many gods or no god at all! How can any monotheist listen to that kind of rubbish?)

Or is the argument that the Taliban didn't really believe the Buddha was evil; deep down they knew he was OK, whereas the school renamers are absolutely certain that they are morally right, so they are justified?

Yes, good point. Everything is like everything else. Renaming a random middle school is the same as blowing up a thousands year old monumental statue, and it also the same as moving a century old not particularly special statue from a town square to a museum.

[Caracal]

Sorry! I never know on this site.

Any idea why Feinstein is on the list for renaming? I was pretty surprised there was a Feinstein Elementary (or whatever it is).

More than Washington and Lincoln's, the explanation for Feinstein's inclusion gives a sense of the Blue Ribbon Panels sensitivity.

Feinstein, the longtime Democratic senator, is included "because as mayor in 1984 she replaced a vandalized Confederate flag that was part of a long-standing flag display in front of City Hall," The Associated Press reported. "When the flag was pulled down a second time, she did not replace it."

The inclusion of a contemporary political figure helps to put the whole thing in context. Is there really some important principle involved in the question of whether an elementary school is named for Dianne Feinstein? At some point, the school board presumably decided to name it after her as an honor, or, to associate themselves with her. If they now decide that they think she wasn't worthy of that honor, or that they don't want to be associated with her, who really cares if they rename the school? Is Dianne Feinstein going to be lost to history if this middle school is no longer named for her?

You can argue about the rights and wrongs involved, but there's not some dangerous precedent being set. It really isn't any different for more distant figures.